[ericmay]

Just for future readers being "liberal" does not necessarily mean that one is "collectivist".

The OP, like many others, confuses governmental, economic, and philosophical ideals so that they can make a political point - one that does not contain much in the way of substance.

In the way of examples, neoliberalism [1] comes to mind.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

[pphysch]

I mean philosophically liberal in the original meaning of the term. In that sense, it is tightly linked with individualism.

This has nothing to do with current American politics.

[ericmay]

Then this comment doesn't make any sense

> > The DPRK is probably the most collectivist (least individualistic) large society on the planet, so much so that it terrifies bleeding heart liberals.

[pphysch]

I'll break it down for you.

Liberals are individualists. It's at the foundation of their worldview and philosophy. This is basic stuff.

DPRK is highly illiberal, un-individualistic. Engaging with DPRK culture in good faith means questioning the universality of the Western, liberal worldview. For most people, this is a non-starter (just look at this thread).

[ericmay]

> so much so that it terrifies bleeding heart liberals

Can you break this term down for me then?

[pphysch]

"bleeding heart" wasn't the best choice of adjective there, I meant "passionate".

[ericmay]

Sure, but you have to be careful with the terms you use! :)

AnimalMuppet gave a good explanation there IMO.

[AnimalMuppet]

Yeah, not the best choice, then. "Bleeding heart" has been used as a slur by (US political) conservatives[1] to attack (US political) liberals. It implied that the liberals suffer from an excess of empathy to the point that it clouds their judgment, or something. Nowadays it's just a slur.

You're using "liberal" in a way that differs from standard US political usage, which is all right, especially since you clearly defined what you meant by the term. But "bleeding heart" sounds very US-politics, and seems really weird with your not using liberal in the US politics sense.

[1] These "conservatives" would count as liberals by your definition - they still believe in individual rights.

[kevviiinn]

To add to this, liberalism and neo liberalism aren't on the left of the political spectrum. These political ideologies are fairly solidly right or centre-right

[the_only_law]

I gave up when I saw people on this site using “neoliberal” as a slur for current US progressives.

Yeah.. I know the term has been basically meaningless for a while, but still.

[pphysch]

The Progressive Caucus is clearly a wing of the Democratic Party, which is neoliberal. They occasionally challenge the party line, but never successfully. That's what primaries are for.

That said, there are many American progressive movements that are not neoliberal. Just not in power.

[kevviiinn]

It just shows how powerful propaganda is, it's redefining terms