[rektide]

Both agree in this case with Mike's right to fun, but also, I feel like the idea of lighthearted jabs has become a steady stream of blows. I said elsewhere:

> Context also matters. Conversationally Mike's words could be an amusing wink & grin quip. I can see that. On paper, & seeing it repeated with the same reckless unnuanced antipathy, it lacks the personal connection & feels indicative of a general attitude situation that is quite prevalent.

"Don't get so upset it's just a joke" is sometimes indeed a legit statement, sometimes we do take things too seriously & need to be reminded. But when the light jabs keep coming, when there's so rarely an attempt to ever bring both parties into the laughing, when it's always jokes at expense, the action whatever it's intent becomes part of a larger behavior that is more than a lighthearted jab.

How many folks would stand up and say, no, there is no pattern of behavior about JS receiving short shift put downs? Do folks think there is no issue? How above board Vs how trashy do we think we've gotten with how programmer culture especially those parts that don't like it treats JS? What other parts of programmer culture endure repeated joke making at their expense today?

[thaumasiotes]

> How many folks would stand up and say, no, there is no pattern of behavior about JS receiving short shift put downs? Do folks think there is no issue?

If you identify with JavaScript so strongly that you'll go over to message boards and rend your garments when you see people making fun of it, and you consider it a big problem that you have to do this so often... maybe consider whether there are some faults in JavaScript that lead it to attract a steady stream of mockery?

> What other parts of programmer culture endure repeated joke making at their expense today?

All of them. Programmers are an unpopular group.

[rektide]

This is a callous take that refuses to pause for even the briefest millisecond of reflection. Personal attacks like this & shaming me may make you feel good & smart but as far as I can tell there's still a real topic here & it still deserves some discussion.

I don't go out of my way to start this discussion every time. But sometimes I do. Because it's super notable to me how asymmetric it is. If there was more evidence of programmers dropping little nasty grams about any old topic, I could see it as cultural. That's why I tried to survey the room. It's remarkable to how persistently nasty people are to the most popular language on the planet. It feels decidedly unhacker like to bully me into silence over this search for meaning & inquiry.

I'd like an example of programmers persistently being mean & denigrating to other programmer spaces or languages. That was the context of the rest of my line of questioning, and implied by this question too. The popular/mainstream perception of programmers is unimportant & distracting, disinformation that misleads the discussion; why do some programmers enjoy dropping little vacuous nasty gram jabs at JS, and is this pattern repeated broadly against any other targets?

Are we concluding that JS is the only bad programming thing, thus no one else gets mocked? Maybe JS is a magnet given how popular it is? Or do we think the casual barbs really do go every way & I'm just missing it?