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by encoderer 1161 days ago
Spotify, get your shit together. You’ve wasted a fortune in podcasting and now you’ve destroyed your app UX. Nobody wants this crap. Everybody just wants better music discovery and instant access to their favorites.
14 comments

Their UX is infuriating compared to a few years ago. Why does it take multiple clicks to get to search? Why are my playlists etc not front and centre? Pop-ups about new albums from artists that they know I’ve never listened to and never would?

Every time I use it now, my inner voice is saying “get the fuck out of my way” to the UX itself.

What are they optimizing for?

I think they’ve realized that as long as they don’t the licenses to the music itself, another company can always come along and eat it’s lunch (a la Disney+, Peacock, Hulu with Netflix. So they’re trying to raise the barriers to listening to “songs” rather than “whatever Spotify serves me”
Yet now they've removed playlist radios in favor of the "enhance" feature. Someone is asleep at the wheel.
"Radios" in Spotify are a shadow of their former self anyway. They used to be a theoretically infinite list of songs that you could up and down vote, which would then influence the next songs to be added. Now it's just a playlist of stuff Spotify deems similar and you essentially just have to deal with it.

Discovery via their radio used to be great. Whenever I tried it more recently it was kind of awful. I've switched off of Spotify many times over the past few years, only to regrettably come back and be disappointed again.

I wish Apple would just make a proper cross platform Apple Music client, then I could switch in peace. All the other alternatives lack some of the more obscure artists I listen to regularly. And while I try to purchase as much as I can, not everything is available digitally and I don't really want to import CDs from the other side of the world.

Yes! Radios have been totally gutted. It was my primary way of discovering new music. Now it’s biased towards music I already have liked.

Jesus Christ Spotify. Is there anybody working there who actually likes music anymore? No I don’t want to listen to the fucking Gillian Flynn novel.

> All the other alternatives lack some of the more obscure artists I listen to regularly.

Even YouTube?

they get paid by Labels to promote certain songs and artists, similar to how labels pay radio to play only certain songs. Everything, from Amazon, to Spotify, to the Google Play Store wants you to click on promoted bullshit, not search for what you actually want. Welcome to the internet in 2023.
The difference should be that users pay Spotify for a subscription.

Raise the prices if they need to, but don't try and have a subscription + "whatever ad bucks we can make" model.

Their advertising business is the only reason they succeeded and Rhapsody, Zune Pass, and Napster/PressPlay didn’t. It’s ingrained in the company
I thought it was because the major labels are also the biggest shareholders, and therefore incentivized not to hamstring the company?
Their business model has always been the latter.
Vote with your wallet.
Guess for a lot of us spotify users that'd mean stop paying for their service? am pretty close to doing so after almost a decade of paying for spotify.
yes. there are good alternatives. switching can be easy or painful depending on if you're willing to use opaque 3rd-party services to transfer your playlists (also, when I exported manually, some songs just disappeared from my "Liked"). but I highly recommend taking the plunge.
Additionally, artists can sign up to get prioritization in the radio and recommendation algorithms... at the cost of some of their royalties. You're likely already missing out on artists who don't pay the troll toll if you rely heavily on Spotify's recommendations.
You can jump straight to search using {Cmd,Ctrl}-L the same as a web browser, but for folks who're not used to key commands the decision to hide the search bar is absolutely deranged.
Nice, thanks!

Wonder why they seemed to have never prodded me about this? Rather that than (as already mentioned) prodding me about new releases from literally-who artists (to me). ;)

> What are they optimizing for?

Probably engagement. The more clicks, the better.

I've switched to Tidal. It pushes some ads too, but not nearly as badly. The discovery algorithm is slightly worse but pretty close. Most importantly it doesn't keep playing the same 3 songs (at least it's more like 30).

I left Spotify for their policies (pro-Rogan, shit pay to artists), and landed on Tidal. it's not perfect, but it absolutely fits the niche that Spotify did and feels way less stupid.
Is Tidal still prioritizing US hiphop? I really liked it (about 5 years ago) but left because they pushed e.g. Beyonce to me on every visit on every possible surface despite me having a completely different taste in music.
I don't think I've ever seen any hip hop while using Tidal, so probably no, at least if you're not interested in adjacent genres. Even the ads (stupid playlists I don't want to see, I can only explain them forcing them on me with financial interest) include a probably average amount of it.
mm, maybe. I got a lot more Kanye than I wanted (>0) early on, but I was able to just ban that artist. for other stuff, it does seem to favor US hip-hop on my account, but I don't listen to a lot of hip-hop and it's mostly US-based, so YMMV. I would say that if you're making playlists of non-US and it's pushing US suggestions, that's kind of a problem, yes.
In the desktop app Search is always available for me in the sidebar. Not for you?

I agree in general about their UX, though; it's part of the general enshittification, these companies always trying to squeeze us for more attention. The constant change has its own friction. And tt feels especially egregious on something as personal as our music.

They've been actively destroying their UX for years now. I am so tired of them forcing their Podcasts and audio books and whatever else on me.

The one thing I want Spotify to do well is algorithmic discovery. The Discover Weekly playlist is the only thing that keeps me on the service, and yet they make it more and more difficult to find. The position on the home screen is entirely random and unpredictable. The only reliable way to find it is by using the search feature.

I saw they had audiobooks, then stumbled around trying to just get a comprehensive list of what they had versus their weird “picks” from categories that don’t seem to exist.

Then I finally found something and saw that not only was it not included in my subscription, but the cost was higher than buying the hardcover on Amazon.

discover weekly is also my favorite, and i was having the same problem with it hopping around. to avoid needing to search for it, you can save it to your library to make it easily findable next to your other playlists. it’ll still auto-update weekly.
To be honest, I find their music recommendation algo still way behind what Pandora (the music streaming, not the jewelry brand) cracked years ago.

It amazed me with the fact that even after creating a radio from a single song, I got exactly what I wanted to hear (including new songs).

It's a shame that it's not available in Europe.

To be fair, I use Spotify mostly for podcasts and it's UX and search for Podcasts is also terrible.
Discover Weekly has this weird annoying behavior where the shuffle button disappears on that playlist, so I have to leave DW to any song anywhere else, turn off shuffle, then come back. DW doesn't need shuffle on, the playlist order is already random!
I left Spotify after over a decade of daily usage several months ago. For all the reasons you have listed.
"Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die."

https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys

I recently subscribed to YouTube Premium, which includes YouTube Music, and for the first time in my life a system is recommending music that I actually like on a regular basis. I've discovered entirely new artists and even genres. Can't recommend it enough.
Same; I switched to YT Music b/c of better offline playback than Spotify Premium (and ofc YT Premium simply includes music!)

however i've found that the mixes introduce me to recommendations that I like at roughly the same rate as Discover Weekly.

What are you listening to for such good recommendations? Is the the automatic "Mix" playlists it creates?

Also you can trust Google to never shut down a service that you like. /s
We pay for Premium as well and I started using music because "Hey it's included." It quickly became my main platform mostly because it stays out of the way and plays music.
Is it better than the standard YouTube algo?

Because on YT video it's like:

You picked Rammstein? Sure, here is your next video with classical music, because you were listening to it last week.

I quit sometime after they ended extensions. It was so awesome having Spotify as a platform for dozens & dozens of extensions.

I wish I'd taken a screenshot or done a video tour of my setup before it shut down. The Cluetrain Manifesto/Intertwingularity days were so full of open endless possibility & fun. Spotify did so so so well, had such an interesting capable Javascript extension system built in to the app... then we're one of the first people to pack up & leave the party. I was shocked.

Extensions were awesome. Took them about a decade to bring lyrics back after they killed extensions too.
The app ux is buggy and I'm one to complain on spotifys forums about it, but I do wonder about the sentiments in this thread, as I still find having access to spotifys library or capabilities with podcasts, music, playlists, making playlists, downloads, etc, to be a delight and I have not found myself seeking other applications to replace it as it gets so much daily use from me. Am I in the dark about something?
It genuinely sounds like you may have absorbed and accepted the quirks of their interface.

I started using Spotify after Google killed Google Music. I find it totally egregious. My playlists feel hidden from me. Search is infuriating. The path to a full album is many clicks away. Even finding albums vs singles vs EPs is tough. In fact the app seems to discourage full-album listening. The recommendations for me have so far been totally completely underwhelming. And I'm constantly having Joe Rogan shoved in my face, not to mention a whole host of other stuff I have zero interest in.

We all get used to different paradigms, but Spotify feels like a particularly bad (and constantly shifting) case. If it was all I knew, I might think differently.

I switched to Apple Music after using Spotify daily for over a decade. Music has a buggy UI as well but at least no podcasts and no books. Their discovery algorithm works better for me than Spotify (and Spotify was so good in the beginning! such a shame).
Does Spotify still not have a way to pick up where you left off on a podcast after venturing into music for a while and coming back? I remember there being something extremely annoying about that very obvious usecase which made me just go back to Pocket Casts, even though that app can't even stream a podcast without some sort of skip or fast forward.
It goes back to the moment you last listened (minus a couple of seconds) by default. Spotify is a decent podcast player, not AntennaPod but OK.
They took away the ability on Android to put playlists and album links directly on the home screen, which I used extensively. No discernable reason, and they have refused to reimplement. The "idea" on Spotify has a lot of Voi ed support but it's like being put in the kids corner. It's insulting.

I used to be loyal to Spotify because it was decent and they were in the music business specifically. Now I'm on YouTube Music and going to cancel Spotify paid.

They can't afford for you to listen to popular music. Everything they promote is an alternative to you listening to Taylor Swift.

They'd love it if you listened to podcasts. If you have to listen to music they want to convince you to listen to something unpopular they can license for cheap. That's why the push Discover stuff so hard.

I’d been using Spotify since 2009 and switched to Apple Music last year. The Apple Music UX is worse, but Dolby Atmos makes it worth it. As someone who listens to a lot of jazz with headphones, it’s a significant improvement over standard stereo. I’d go back to Spotify if they added the feature.
Come over to Pandora - the water is warm and your favorite songs are a flowing.
Pandora's discovery algorithm is still top notch. But the rest is just awful: navigating to albums/artists, finding which words are clickable and not clickable, not being able to like or downvote some random sources (if it's a radio you can't like, or can - I can't remember and used to always get confused).
Hmm, maybe give it another try if it's been a while.

It's anecdotes, sure, but I do not experience these issues with the App or the Website.

You can Up/Down Vote on your "Radio" stations - but not your custom playlists (which makes sense).

Pandora offers custom playlists, offline listing, unlimited skips of radio, no ads on radio, "hit" playlits (curated by Pandora and other users) and more. It's radio/discovery algorithm is what kept me with Pandora, but all these features make it on-par with Spotify.

Man, I must be the only person who actually LIKES the Spotify UX. The color scheme looks cool, the app is pretty intuitive and well designed IMO, and it also hasn't majorly changed in 10 years.
People who like stuff typically aren't going around posting about it, especially not in these types of threads that appeal to those who dislike the company/app.

Personally I think Spotify is great and it works really well for me, the only thing I really don't like is the podcast push. While it's not as bad as it used to be, I wish I could toggle it off or banish it to some separate part of the app.

I agree that the UX has become cluttered but Heardle was never integrated into the apps UX, it was a totally standalone website.
There's a ton of competitors in this space. Try something else!