[carlosjobim]

I don't know how to put it nicely. You are sinking into a diseased swamp of illusion that is killing your soul, and what's worse you are trying to spread this mortal disease to people who are unsuspecting or weak to resist it.

What you have created is a plague upon humanity and the world. Please don't do this.

[unshavedyak]

Lets change the framing. Assuming this is bad for humanity and assuming someone will do this -- because it's unavoidable, right? -- what would the best way to introduce this to mankind be?

I imagine introducing a perfect "Her" with no flaws in personality, implementation, hosting (local hosting on cheap hardware, etc) would be the worst version. Humanity hasn't had time to adjust. Laws not written, social understanding of it not achieved, etc. It's a bomb, in it's most perfect form, unleashed. In this framing, waiting the longest possible time before it is unleashed seems the worst way to introduce humanity.

Alternatively, introducing it early gives humanity a far less tempting version of it. Both the implementation and personality are full of holes, flaws. We at least have a chance to understand it at a time when it is at it's weakest. When it's the least effective it can be at achieving whatever disastrous outcomes that are expected.

I don't agree with this in general. BUT, i'm framing that if we assume it's bad, and we assume it will happen regardless (i very much believe this), then wouldn't now be the time to "do this"? Now seems the best we can hope for. To learn from the experience.

In my view humanity will experience this regardless. I suspect we need to learn sooner than later. Whatever we may learn from it.

Thoughts?

[carlosjobim]

I think the most sensible comparison is with damaging drugs that are addictive and the drug dealers. These drugs exist and cannot be unmade. Things such as crack cocaine, heroin, fentanyl, or worse drugs.

That doesn't mean we should accept or applaud the drug dealers pushing these drugs onto people. Because they are systematically seeking out young people from broken homes, people lacking in self control, or people who are in other ways weak and easy prey for these life-destroying substances.

The software made by OP might be inevitable, but compiling and publishing it to an app store and making it easy for people to use is extremely unethical. In OPs case, this is a business (worth a couple million dollars right now) that is looking to prey on lonely and socially isolated people. I find it completely despicable to exploit your fellow human beings in this manner.

[unshavedyak]

That's a good comparison because i feel differently for similar reasons as the way i framed my previous argument. I agree that those drugs are all very bad, but i also approximately want to legalize it because, as you said, it can't be undone and most importantly i don't feel like those drugs themselves are the problem.

Having experienced family members heavily under the influence of these destructive forces has led me to the believe (biased, as my belief is) that the drugs are medication for users seeking help. Clearly a bad form of medication, but nonetheless the abuse is self medicated in my view. So my view of solutions here is not about prohibition, because my family still acquired them, but that of robust solutions to what put people in the state to self medicate to begin with.

Likewise i wonder if people are so easily wrecked by a bot that is merely nice, is there something better we should be doing than prohibition? Is this a form of self medication to our modern lifestyle?

The best answers are of course complex. But my family was destroyed so i'm biased in believing that prohibition is not doing nearly enough. Especially when it feels like with prohibition in place we seem to rely entirely on prohibition.

I get that your argument is not about prohibition, but rather weaponizing distribution. A comparison could be the difference between legalizing these drugs vs putting them in the checkout aisle of supermarkets. I get that. However i'm clearly biased against believing that slowing down the access is not an answer. Facing the problem and the doing all we can to seek out the root cause for why medication is taking place is all i seem capable of agreeing with. As difficult as that may be.

[carlosjobim]

As I see it, maybe 1 out of 10 persons or more would be vulnerable to this kind of software, and on the other hand 1 out of a 1000 or less would be lacking in morals enough to create or distribute it. The same with the drugs mentioned. So striking the source seems to me a better solution than to trying to caution normal people against it while letting the madmen run wild. Especially this kind of software that nobody needs for any purpose.

I don't see this bot as "merely nice". It is made to manipulate the soul of living and breathing people, it is in my eyes a true abomination of evil. This first version will be a subscription model like this one, the next versions will be programmed to manipulate people into transferring their money to whoever controls the machine. After that, the software will be made to manipulate people into doing real world tasks and certainly not for their own benefit. Even if that development can be stopped, already this first iteration will do massive damage to people if it takes off.

Talking about heroin and such, they at least have a certain medical use. This kind of software has no positive use case, and I would not agree in seeing it as some kind of self medication.

As for the solutions you ask for to help people from not ending up in that kind of situation to begin with, that turns them into drug addicts or victims of this kind of toxic software. I don't have all the answers, but I have a few, that can help some people some of the time: I think psychedelic therapy will truly help many people with addiction problems if they want it. It is cheap and readily available. Eating healthy and working out and having a purposeful job or activity. Avoiding negative influences and seeking positive influences, both in company and in what you do.

You and I and everybody are very familiar with the negative spirals of drug addiction or other kind of unhealthy living, but what about the positive spirals? People don't talk much about them. Here's one:

Exercise leads to better sleep Better sleep leads to higher energy in your body Higher energy in your body leads to better exercise

One thing nobody ever talks about with exercise is that you feel much better as a being once you are getting in better shape. Not self-esteem, but the comfort and energy of your body (and mind). This makes you feel better about doing active things, such as sports, hiking etc and the activities in turn reward your body and mind back.

Now let's combine this positive spiral with healthy eating. Cutting sugar soon makes every unhealthy sweet food taste horrible, while food that tasted more bland start tasting much better. Being healthier from eating well (and exercise) makes your mind sharper and in turn makes it easier to resist cravings for unhealthy food.

This is the ethical way of hacking your mind, even a bitter looser will be unable to continue being that when he wakes up feeling great every morning.

When it feels good or even great to just be alive, you don't need hypnotic or narcotic drugs (or mindless entertainment) to cope with existence. And you will have the energy to cope with a situation that is maybe shit in other ways (low income, loneliness) and the force to take yourself into a different situation, preferably better.

Another positive spiral is to socialize with better people. The older you are the harder it gets, but cutting toxic people is a good insurance against falling back into old habits. Toxic people can also be highly esteemed people, that are nice and friendly to others. But if their idea of you is a drug addict or a loser or a shut-in, they will never change that idea, even if they are family. You could become an astronaut and go land on Mars and they will still think you are a loser.

On the other hand, associating with positive people will lift you up instead of dragging you down. The positive spirals of this is insane, not only in well-being, but also in opportunities.

There are positive spirals in personal economy, career, wisdom and all other aspects of life - and they all reinforce each other. Just as negative spirals reinforce each other. I could go on and on, but I think people are sick of reading by now.

[jondavisson]

Sounds like you live with with floaty ideals and quick to turn down “unethical” ideas, or product. What you see is the symptom, and it’s the reality there is a demand for this. If you truly care about what you say, do something to help with the root of what you think is the problem. What are the alternatives? If there is none, go make one.