[grogenaut]

I grew up in St Louis. We didn't worry so much about murder for cause as someone had to specifically dislike you (cheating on/with spouse for example). We just watched the street crime rates.

That said moving to the west coast people freak out all the time about yearly murder rates that are a weekend in STL.

[somenameforme]

A lot depends a lot on distribution, which surface level stats don't reveal. I've lived in very high crime rates that were perfectly safe because it was a mixture of 'don't go to these areas' and basic interpersonal stuff. I've also lived in areas that were far safer on paper, but were substantially more dangerous for me because crime was far more 'equal opportunity.' I've no idea of the situation in San Francisco but this could easily explain the perception : stats relationship.

[nverno]

Exactly, murder stats aren't necessarily a good measure of how safe a city feels to a typical dweller. Many city homicides are gang-related, and if the gangs only operate in specific areas, killing eachother, the city can still feel totally safe to other people. Constant theft really weighs on the psyche- needing to worry about everywhere you leave your bike locked or park your car is a burden.

To your point, Ulaanbaatar felt like one of the more dangerous cities I've been in because people would rob foreigners in broad daylight on crowded streets, but I don't think there was much homicide at all.

[projectazorian]

> Constant theft really weighs on the psyche- needing to worry about everywhere you leave your bike locked or park your car is a burden.

This was my experience living in Chicago. While violent crime was much higher than on the West Coast, it was highly localized and it remained true that if you didn’t go looking for trouble, it usually wouldn’t find you. There is affordable housing and the social safety net hasn’t completely collapsed so there are many fewer cases of out of control mentally ill folks on the streets.

Meanwhile, petty property crime felt like it was much lower. Car break-ins definitely happened but it was not at all endemic like it seems to be in LA or SF. Although I’ve heard this has changed if you own a Hyundai or Kia due to a security vulnerability in many of those cars permitting easy hot-wiring. The new security patches rolling out will fix that problem, I hope.

[nverno]

That's interesting about Chicago, that's one city where I imagined the murders would've had more of an effect.

It seems impossible that people don't even have to lock their bikes in a lot of Asian cities coming from the states.

[projectazorian]

There are several neighborhoods in Chicago with almost all the amenities of NYC/SF, low crime, but much lower cost of living. Although housing costs in those neighborhoods have gone up quite a bit as more and more remote workers figure this out.

(yes, it gets cold sometimes, but you can always take some of that money you saved by moving and get on a plane somewhere warm)