[MrPatan]

> Social media told you to be angry about people that’ve been around forever. You chose to only pay attention recently and get angry.

Again, no. It's only when they started telling children it was a good idea to sterilize themselves. Just don't do irreversible damage to children, it's that easy. Find other shibboleths to identify good communists that don't involve chopping bits off kids.

[vidarh]

You're inventing things people aren't arguing for. The purpose of giving puberty blockers, for example, is to buy time to avoid irreversible damage at a too young age. And yes, to a child whose dysphoria does not resolve, puberty as the wrobg sex is irreversible damage.

If you believe your own arguments, presumably you support them.

[MrPatan]

If I believed all those dysphoria cases were real and not social contagion I would. But I don't, so I don't.

[vidarh]

Irrelevant. If any significant number of them are "social contagion", then that is an argument for puberty blockers to remove any pressure for more invasive and irreversible changes while the person in question is too young to decide for themselves and have not had a chance to think it through.

Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed, and appears to just seek to justify the extensive harm your immoral stance would result in.

[MrPatan]

Puberty blockers themselves are not free of risk of irreversible damage, as you very well know.

And if you had to bet money, if I told you some kid started on puberty blockers, what would be the odds they later got surgery or further irreversible damage done? Higher or lower than if they didn't start on puberty blockers, as they did 10 years ago?

If I'm right and social contagion is much more prevalent than "real dysphoria", that is a very relevant point, and makes fighting against the contagion the right thing to do, not dishing out puberty blockers like candy.

Now, you can tell me that you believe there is little social contagion and we'll have to agree to disagree, but don't try to twist your way into roiding kids up, it doesn't make sense. And you know it.

[vidarh]

> Puberty blockers themselves are not free of risk of irreversible damage, as you very well know.

Their risk is miniscule compared to the risk of untreated gender dysphoria.

> And if you had to bet money, if I told you some kid started on puberty blockers, what would be the odds they later got surgery or further irreversible damage done? Higher or lower than if they didn't start on puberty blockers, as they did 10 years ago?

Irrelevant, as if they later get surgery it is because they, once they are mature enough to decide, determine that it is the best outcome for them. If that number is higher than 10 years ago it is likely to be because the chance of an outcome that will actually help them will be drastically improved when they've not been forced to endure the massive harm of going through puberty with dysphoria.

Your reasoning is still invalid.

> If I'm right and social contagion is much more prevalent than "real dysphoria", that is a very relevant point, and makes fighting against the contagion the right thing to do, not dishing out puberty blockers like candy.

If social contagion is much more prevalent than "real dysphoria" that would justify trying to fix that, but it would still not justify doing massive harm to those suffering from that dysphoria whether or not caused by social contagion.

Irrespective of the source of the dysphoria, it exists, and it correlates to immense harm when untreated, and so arguing for withholding treatment is deeply immoral.

That you're suggesting this is out of some desire to "roid kids up" is just vile.

[MrPatan]

> Irrespective of the source of the dysphoria, it exists

No! What you have here is a bunch of confused girls that will do whatever tiktok influencers tell them to do. Do nothing and it'll pass in 99.99% of the cases. Start blocking puberties and you end up with a lot of unnecessary surgeries and sterile people who will suffer the rest of their lives.

How many people temporally confused by social contagion are you willing to sacrifice for each "real case" that you catch earlier? Where's your line? Ten, a hundred? A thousand? All of them?

You don't want to engage with the question, I get it, but it's the whole point here.

> Irrelevant, as if they later get surgery it is because they, once they are mature enough to decide, determine that it is the best outcome for them

Yeah, because the sunk cost fallacy develops only after puberty, or what? No. As you very well know, once they start on that road the identity kicks in and it's "who they are now". Which is exactly what you want, a normal person comes in, an activist for life comes out. Who cares about the actual person, right?

[pigsty]

I don’t think communist countries have a higher rate of trans people. Blaming random, irrelevant things on communism is a hallmark sign of believing media fear mongering.

[MrPatan]

Let me spell it out, maybe it helps somebody else:

- "Communists" is shorthand for "envious losers who'd rather destroy society than improve themselves". "Elite overproduction" is what you want to google. I just think "communist" has a more, idk, "classic" ring to it.

Now, you can argue whether we have an "envious loser" problem or not, and how big their influence is, and if it's too late to do anything at all, or all is lost already.

Or you can pull out the dictionary.