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by noirscape 1165 days ago
The ultimate usefulness of swearing before a God (if you believe in one) isn't that relevant. The psychological reason we tend to request it is because of something far simpler: it reminds us of our convictions. There was a study about a decade ago about this by some social scientists.

They made 10 people swear on the ten commandments before making a test intended to check for their honesty, they made another group of people take the same test while taking an oath on a general document stating they'd be truthful, and finally they did the same test with a control group who wasn't asked to swear on anything.

All participants were checked to be atheists (so not caring much for the words of any God) beforehand as well.

The outcome was that generally speaking, just being asked to swear on something tended to remind people of their own convictions, which in turn tended to result in them answering the subsequent test questions more honestly.

That's all swearing over a document really does - it reminds someone of their morals (usually with the intent of guilt tripping them into not lying afterwards). I don't know about any other social reasons why we do it, but that's the psychological effect it has. (This is presumably why you can do it on any document that you have a sufficient conviction of being important to you as well.)

7 comments

When I graduated as an Engineer, I swore an oath. I still remember one value that gets tested from time to time is to remember my work is for the betterment of the human condition, not only the perfection of machines. This has guided me through some difficult choices.
Maybe we engineers should swear on a stack of Star Trek DVD's
That's one future I work for.
It made me really happy to hear that. Thank you.

I’ve been told plenty of times that such a future is implausible. And I grant that our future may look a lot more like The Orville than Star Trek. But from an engineering, public health, and social perspective it seems that both of those visions have more similarities than differences. I accept that the individual work most of us do don’t directly build that future alone, but someone up-thread was quoting “E Pluribus Unum” and that’s how we get there.

(Auto-correct wished that to be “E Pluribus Ubuntu,” but I’ve always suspected LCARS is a lot more like BSD, Arch or Gentoo.)

And so what that it's implausible and quite possible unattainable as well? We may never get there, but getting there was never the point - the point is to be better than we were yesterday, and the day before, and so on.

Our present is equally implausible.

I always assumed we would hit some big filter and die off. If not a filter maybe something in the dark forest would get us
Even if the chance of that was 99.9999%, the only morally defensible attitude would still be to devote all our energy to survive, expand, improve, and make human civilization more robust. As fast as possible.
It would be nice if all schools did this, but I suspect that doing so, would render the oath almost meaningless.
It's pretty common and the Engineer's I've worked with take it pretty seriously.

https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/july-2009/called-....

There's also a code of ethics:

https://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics/engineers-...

Sadly, most software engineers aren't licensed professional engineers.

Either that, or we wouldn't be living in the ethical and morally absent world we live in today.
The point is that the oath is for the benefit of the oathtaker, so extra useless oaths don't hurt.
What school did you graduate from? This is great.
Canadian engineering schools do a ceremony and oath designed by Rudyard Kipling. It has some serious gravitas and leaves a real impression on young minds.

The Kipling oath isn't phrased that way so it probably wasn't a Canadian school, but it does have a similar intent.

Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_of_the_Calling_of_an_En...

They get cool rings as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

I'm not Canadian, but I took some engineering classes and these oaths and rings were brought up when discussing ethics. Funnily enough we were told they were forged from the material of a collapsed bridge as a reminder to not build shitty bridges, but according to the article that's a myth.

Before moving to Ireland, Canada was our #1 option. I started some research on what would I need to have my Brazilian degree validated so I could take the oath and be accepted into the EIC.
It's called FEI, which translates to College of Industrial Engineering. It's in Brazil, on a (mostly industrial, and uncannily rainy) city called São Bernardo do Campo.
I think there's another reason. It's a public line in the sand. If you're a doctor or a chartered engineer and management is pushing you to do something unethical you can point to the oath and say we don't do that. Other people will take it more seriously than an ethical stance that appears to be a mere personal preference. It's not just about the oath taker.
As an atheist, I think it would be interesting to see the experiment repeated with a group of (self-described) religious people.
I can believe that being reminded of your convictions helps you abide by them, but this is only true if you really have convictions! If you think your being in power is more important than being honest, for example, then the oath your swear might just be one more example of saying the right thing to get into power.
Sounds like a study that wouldn’t replicate.
That's a huge conclusion about personalities from a selection of just 30 people.

What happens when you start crossing religious, educational, economic, and cultural boundaries? There's absolutely no way to cover those things with fewer than a few thousand people.

Is it really being reminded, or is it the public declaration of the oath and your acceptance of it that makes it effective?

It's much like reciting wedding vows. You are making a very public promise, with a real threat of social ostracization if you break it.