[_hypx]

I hope people realize that fuel cell cars are also EVs, and have only a handful more moving parts to deal with. People have mislead themselves into thinking the BEV is synonymous with all EVs. This type of thinking could easily lead people into making serious mistakes.

[giobox]

The history of fuel cell cars doesn't exactly paint a happy picture...

I think its critically important we have managed to profitably make EVs at scale - no one has ever turned a profit on fuel cell cars, and indeed often sold them at enormous losses. See any of the ones Toyota shipped - the Mirai is sold at an incredible loss.

This isn't to say these can't be fixed, but the best fuel cell cars simply haven't been as good as the best EVs to date accross a number of objective/subjective measures.

[_hypx]

You do realize that BEVs predate internal combustion cars? You could've said the same thing about all EVs just a few years ago.

The problem with BEVs is that they have gigantic resource requirements. It is very much replacing one problematic resource base with another. Fuel cell cars lack this problem. It is not inconceivable that this fundamental problem will force our hand in the future.

Also, like I said, a fuel cell car is an EV. Your story about the Mirai losing money is not different than accusing Tesla of doing the same. Arguably even more absurd, since Mirai should cost less to make.

[giobox]

> You do realize that BEVs predate internal combustion cars? You could've said the same thing about all EVs just a few years ago.

Toyota and others have tried and failed for decades, yes. The order of events is irrelevant to the discussion.

BEV sales managed to reach profitability at scale in less than a decade.

BEVs also have benefit of sharing technologies with many other devices, in a way fuel cell does not - its not surprising to me at all BEV is winning, and by a huge margin.

Supplying and pumping compressed hydrogen at temperatures well below freezing (the typical solution) at the pump is also not all that simple compared to an EV plug or even good ole' gas, and the range offered by the compressed tank is not all that amazing either.

Fuel cell tech will find uses I'm sure, but its not going to be affordable personal transport.

[_hypx]

That is all very selective reasoning. You literally ignored what I just said, in that batteries have huge resource issues and that could force our hand. In the end, there's no coherent reason why one (and only one) type of EV must win.

[giobox]

Whats selective? Look at the world around you - BEV sales are in the millions of units per year. It's just common sense analysis.

Toyota shipped 2000 Mirais in 2022, I feel for the owners.

[_hypx]

And over a billion ICE cars...

Not to mention that if you go back a handful of years, BEVs were in the same boat as FCEVs. Like I said, all of this is selective reasoning and doesn't prove anything. And you're still ignoring my point about the resource problem. We could be forced to suddenly change our minds by reality no matter what.

Worth noting that something similar undermined all of the biofuel strategies of the past. Once people realized that biofuels simply couldn't scale, they had to abandon the idea, even though they also got plenty of government support.

[jackmott42]

What serious mistake will be made?