[1differential]

It's extremely brutal. I'm a staff engineer and a tech lead of ~12 engineers, I've either been getting low ball offers, or ending the last round of interviews to get no offer. I've employed but have been looking for a job for ~6 months with terrible results. I graduated from a T5 school, have worked at a "unicorn" startup, and have an average of 3 years at every role. My conversion rate is a little better - 3 interviews for every 40-50 apps, but I've gotten 2 offers for 6 months of searching.

My most memorable was this tier 3 hedge fund trying to convince me to take a junior IC role for a new team that had also hired a manager and director from outside the company for a new endeavor/initiative, and the manager had been at his last 3 jobs for roughly over a year each, get out of here lol.

[eschneider]

I interviewed from Jan-Feb pretty much as a full time job. Lots of applications out, maybe 5-10 well-researched applications a day which yielded one or two interviews a day for that time period. Three went to offers and I'm pretty sure I could have closed a few more if I hadn't taken the job I did.

I've done everything from UI to cloud to embedded stuff, but I was mostly focusing on embedded roles thinking that a) I like that sort of work and b) the competition wouldn't be as bad, though Amazon did layoff a lot of device folk in my geographic area.

Salary expectations seemed to be a big thing at companies, and I'd expect that FAANG folks looking to find that sort of compensation at smaller companies are likely to be disappointed or possibly even weeded out at the start.

That said, some companies are definitely low-balling but most seem willing to pay around 'market rate' for folks. I took a slight step-down in pay, but I like what I'm working on and the people and the companies that we offering more money we're offering enough more to overcome that.

[abeppu]

> most seem willing to pay around 'market rate' for folks

What does this mean? What do the quotes mean?

This seems to be nearly a tautology; the market rate is what people are willing to pay.

[eschneider]

It means that when companies would ask me what my salary expectations were, I'd tell them I was looking for something "market rate". Exactly those words. I'd often follow up by asking "Do you have a range in mind for this position?" and go from there.

At that point I've answered their salary question and probably not scared them off and if they really want to put a number on it, it's up to them. At this stage, if they don't have a range or just won't say, it tells you a bit about them.

[irrational]

When you say low ball, do you mean compared to what FAANG companies pay (paid?) or do you mean compared to what non-tech Fortune 500 companies pay?

[1differential]

non-FAANG - I'm familiar with Disney's salary levels, and would say I'm getting offers at a level below what I would expect (or 40k-60k below on base).

[Volundr]

Looking up Disney salaries, I'd say outside of the main tech hubs ~$40-$60k less is about what I'd expect.

[BoorishBears]

> I've either been getting low ball offers

Are they all junior IC level low balls, or is this accidentally revealing why staff level+ engineers aren't getting calls?

I'll be honest and say if tomorrow morning I get laid off, I'm not expecting my current pay to get matched.

[1differential]

Sorry for the confusion, I'm trying to interview for only staff/senior staff level roles. This company just had a job listing for "Software Engineer" to build out a new initiative so I decided check it out. And yeah, not getting the 20% pay bump between job hops that I'm looking for.

[BoorishBears]

There's no confusion... I'm asking is your definition of lowball something like "offering Junior-like pay when I wanted Senior/Staff-like pay"

> And yeah, not getting the 20% pay bump between job hops that I'm looking for.

That kind of answers my question lol. This isn't the environment where I'd consider not getting a pay bump a low ball.

And ironically that mentality is what I infer when I hear stories like OP's: These companies assume that people from certain backgrounds have expectations forged in a much more favorable market, and they'd rather not waste their time interviewing someone looking for a 20% pay bump in a down market...

[throwaway5959]

> had been at his last 3 jobs for roughly over a year each

And yet the manager would be your boss. Not sure why you think how long someone has been in a role is somehow a worthwhile signal.

[__float]

As you get more senior, it takes time to understand your sibling teams, the business itself, etc.

If it takes 6+ months just to get "up to speed", are you really having much impact when you leave 6 months later?

[throwaway5959]

I’m a principal software engineer. If it takes me more than a month to get up to speed with an organization (I usually work with small-mid sized companies), I consider that a failure. Six months to first contribution is insane.

[Volundr]

First contribution is not the same as up-to-speed. I'll also note that a manager often needs a broader view of the company than an engineer, though at principal level I'd expect the gap to be less (but it isn't always).

[ardit33]

First Contribution and Up to full speed ramp up are completely different things.

Expectations at FAANGS is that it might take a month or two for the contribution to start (one week, if you count bootcamp tasks at Meta), but it takes about 6+ months to full ramp up at the Senior+ level.

At small startups, it is very different.

[throwaway5959]

Yup, everyone should work in places they feel comfortable. I don’t want to work in an environment where it takes six months to ramp up.

[freeplay]

Regardless of how good you are, you're ramp up time is very dependent on the place.

If you're walking into a place with very little in the way of documentation and process, it could take a while to learn enough to be effective (ex: 50 different microservices and 5 different stacks, nuanced environments, etc.)

On the other hand, if everything is very standardized and well documented, you can jump right in.

[q7xvh97o2pDhNrh]

Oof. Are you going out for L6? Is the goal a big company, or a startup?

Reading all the comments in this thread, I wonder if there's some correlation to specific areas of the tech industry. e.g., Are people working in the AI space (or even something like ML infra) just inundated with job offers right now?

[1differential]

fwiw I'm a backend engineer - primarily building out services in Java/Scala/Go. I would say the market probably isn't as good as someone with a Masters/PhD looking for ML engineering roles, but that would be anecdotal after chatting with friends.

[vehementi]

> have an average of 3 years at every role

Better than people who job hop every 1-2 years but maybe they're looking for someone with longevity?