[code_pockets]

I saw that ad, thought about applying, but decided not to.

Here is why:

-- A list of common languages is something that pushes me away. Why? Because it tells me (by experience) that they want someone who can do it all (impossible). Its fine to list 2-3 languages or frameworks, but more than that just makes me very suspicious.

-- A bachelor's degree. I don't have one, I will not get one. Why ask for one when a lot of CS graduates can't program?

-- Experience? Sure, lots. But when you get older (I'm 32+), everything looks the same: just data sets, and problems to be solved. There is a blurry line between languages/frameworks/etc. Everything is just more of the same (I do, however, enjoy it!). Ask for experience in engineering, and not for experience in the latest dohicketydo.

[newhouseb]

> A list of common languages is something that pushes me away.

In this job posting across all four roles the most per job role is 3, i.e. Ruby, ObjC (presumably IOS) and/or Java (presumably Android). I'm curious which part you specifically take issue with as everything listed seems pretty vanilla to me.

I'm usually wary of postings that say things like "we use Python, Node.js, Ruby, Haskell, ObjC", but for different reasons because this seems to indicate they don't know how to select the best technologies for the job to minimize complexity and rather just choose everything that is in vogue.

> they want someone who can do it all

I'm not sure if you're implying "all at the same time", or just _can_ do it all. Great programmers can do most anything you throw at them (and I've come across a few like this).

[code_pockets]

Most anything you throw at them != doing it all.

You talk in technical terms, they do in business terms.

They want one hacker to solve all their problems.

My comment about the list of languages is not aimed at that specific posting, but about postings in general.

[sliverstorm]

A bachelor's degree. I don't have one, I will not get one. Why ask for one when a lot of CS graduates can't program?

This is logically flawed. It is entirely possible that by removing the barrier of bachelor's degree, they will receive even more applicants who cannot program (percentage-wise).

I have no grounds on which to claim this is the case, but it seems entirely feasible and you have simply skipped over it.

Note that I am not taking issue with your personal choices regarding a degree. It is your choice to make, and I respect that.

[apl]

  > This is logically flawed. It is entirely possible that by
  > removing the barrier of bachelor's degree, they will
  > receive even more applicants who cannot program
  > (percentage-wise).

While certainly true, this line of reasoning works a lot better for big companies than small-ish start-ups. Remember: requiring a CS degree acts as a filter with a certain probabilistic efficacy given that CS degree and engineering ability are correlated but distinct.

If you get 10,000 applications a year (as enterprises like Google, Facebook, and Apple do), you don't really have to give a damn about your false negative rate. Go ahead and install severe formal requirements (e.g., needs CS PhD) -- you're still going to get a number of applications that is sufficiently large to statistically guarantee multiple highly suitable candidates, and you'll save tons of money and time in the process.

Non-behemoths can't really afford many false negatives because the applicant pool is far more limited. False positives at the CV/formalism stage are relatively easily filtered at the interview stage due to, again, smaller volume.

[code_pockets]

Yes, good point.

Plus, if you are google/facebook/apple material[1], then a degree is just icing on the cake for them.

Building something that gets a lot of attention is also very attractive to these types of companies.

[1]Whatever that is.

[sliverstorm]

This is a good distinction, thank you.

[troels]

Maybe. But they certainly filter out some candidates that can program. If the aim is to find the best possible candidate (And from the postings it sounds like they aim high), filtering out good candidates is probably a bad strategy.

[code_pockets]

Exactly.

When there are so few good hacker out there, why take a chance to miss out on one?

[code_pockets]

You do make a valid and important point. It does, however, point to a flaw in their recruiting process. They should expect portfolios, and not degrees.

Heck, I know two CS graduates who work at a local fast food restaurant.