[anonymouskimmer]

> Which means it becomes a political game where the union is going to help you only if you help them.

In the US unions are required to assist even non-members who are in jobs represented by the union. It's called the "free rider" problem.

> And then the bosses get used to these unions and they know personally the people who represent the union, etc.

This has historically been a problem in non-worker-run unions, and may still be. In worker-run unions workers directly elect their representatives from the membership. If you think your current leadership is too tight with management then you can run against them, or vote for someone who does.

[phpisthebest]

>>If you think your current leadership is too tight with management then you can run against them, or vote for someone who does.

Then you can get the opposite problem.. some with no understanding of the business, which never works out for anyone either the workers or the business.

Workers could get screwed with out knowing it, or the demands are soo outside what the business can support the business would never agree.

[anonymouskimmer]

> the demands are soo outside what the business can support the business would never agree.

Contract negotiations typically always start this way, from both sides of the bargaining table. That's why it's called contract bargaining. After a few rounds of back and forth you're supposed to hit something that's acceptable to both sides.

[anonymouskimmer]

> Then you can get the opposite problem.. some with no understanding of the business, which never works out for anyone either the workers or the business.

The elected person is still a worker at the business. Still talks with other workers at the business, as well as management. And still has access to the non-elected employees of the union whose job it is to catalog and remember institutional knowledge.

[ClumsyPilot]

> Then you can get the opposite problem..

Spunds like damned if you do, damned of you don't

Is there any way for a worker to stand up for himself that sits right with you?

[phpisthebest]

I am an individualist.. Standing up for yourself means exactly that... do it yourself not via a collectivist organization

[anonymouskimmer]

Well this would be fine, but they made dueling illegal right around the time they made everyone equal before the law. How can a regular person stand up for themself these days?

[anonymouskimmer]

Since when are businesses not collectivist organizations? So good for thee but not for me?