[ybinator604g3]

Is it really a choice when you are talking about religion? I am from Iran. In the school they teach (scare) children that if you don’t wear hijab, you will be hanged from your hair and burned on a stick till eternity in hell after you die. By the way that subject is not elective. You have to pass it. What kind of choice is this?

Update (context): I am not talking about the people in west who want to (not)wear hijab. I understand the premise of that choice. But this word (choice) is used daily in government propaganda. Maybe its analogous to talking about the choice of working in a cotton field to a slave. It’s a whole different environment/context. Hence my negative reaction to this word. It’s a matter of feeling which I just expressed. Nothing against someone who has a real choice, without religious stigma.

[Macha]

Yes. Compare the commercial secular Christmas to the mainstream Christian versions to the biblical literalists version. People in different parts of the world treat their religion and culture with different levels of severity and it's possible for an item associated with an oppressive interpretation in one part of the world to be a cultural pride item in another.

[renewiltord]

Obviously that's the reason why people in (say) France are arguing to be allowed to wear it and people in Iran are arguing to be allowed to not wear it.

It's the same argument: don't make me do something I don't want to do.

[madeofpalk]

You're right - that's not a choice. No one (progressive) is arguing for that.

[squarefoot]

Many years ago I had a colleague who was a pretty good engineer from Morocco, also a very nice guy. He left his country and was almost disowned by his own family for being an atheist, a condition which over there I imagine is quite rare and dangerous even nowadays, although we have a good set of examples of discrimination in the west too.

[simfree]

He probably had to leave his country to live a reasonable lifestyle. Some countries like Malaysia will not let you leave Islam if your ethnic Malay, and due to your race you are presumed to be Islamic by law.

It can be very isolating and sometimes dangerous to be the outsider in an area with uniform religious and cultural beliefs.

[sangnoir]

> I am not talking about the people in west who want to (not)wear hijab.

What are your thoughts on western governments that attempt to ban the hijab? I can't remember if France succeeded.

[ybinator604g3]

I think it’s a complex topic that involves religion, society and culture. In this case it’s important to know if they are singling out hijab or also other religious symbols? For instance France banned full face covers and burkas which are not even mandated by the religion if I am not mistaken.

I believe banning a piece of clothing is not reasonable, like banning jeans or headscarves. On the other hand there is a lot of stigma around hijab if you choose not to wear it among some muslim families so much so that it’s not a real choice anymore and it’s not a simple piece of cloth. So I think it’s not bad to have some legal ways to protect you against your over zealous family/community but this kind of lawmaking is very prone to other issues too. Furthermore, banning and enforcing are two sides of the same authoritarian coin which is ultimately the root of the problem. It’s very complicated. I wish I had a straightforward answer.