[marcosdumay]

> It's easy to forget that 10-15 years ago, the most common dev/ops model was "toss it over the fence"

Hum... My first guess is that what really changed was the ratio of developers working on places that do this to the ones working on places that integrate the jobs.

The wall was never the only model around. It still isn't. The same kind of company that practiced it still largely have walls. The IT industry just hired a lot of people.

[mjr00]

> Hum... My first guess is that what really changed was the ratio of developers working on places that do this to the ones working on places that integrate the jobs.

Well sure, and that's because software companies that integrate the jobs is now so much more widespread and commonplace, thanks to "devops". Kind of my point.

[nightpool]

I agree, but I think the GP makes a good point that it wasn't really necessarily any sort of initiative or movement within the organizations that had bad practices—or even the types of organizations that had those practices, like legacy IT orgs—but instead the groundswell of new organizations, including startups, small/medium-businesses, and other more-modern technologies companies, that drove the adoption of new practices. And in most cases, they did this by necessity—they didn't have the funding to pay two separate teams to manage their new website, they didn't have the luxury to wait for 6 month deployment cycles, they needed the reliability of continuous testing but were able to take the up-front cost of short-term unreliability to build up those test suites. Only once engineers who had used these practices and seen them be successful at other companies started to migrate to more legacy industries did devops practices start seeing adoption outside of the "bleeding edge"