[DogLover_]

I always thought one of the drawbacks of working in america compared to europe was that there was less of a safety net. However, with all these news about layoffs I see that most tech companies provide a severance package of 16 weeks which is better than most companies in europe. Is something changing or have I been wrong in my assumptions?

[WinLychee]

Knowledge work in the US (especially tech) is on another level entirely. You would not be treated this way in retail, service jobs, or at most employers AFAIK (this also depends heavily on the state). As far as I know most employment contracts are at will, and they can fire you and give absolutely nothing. However, for some reason all these tech companies are being very generous with layoffs. Possibly they don't want to burn any bridges for the future?

According to https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/007.htm

> There is no requirement in the FLSA for severance pay. Severance pay is a matter of agreement between an employer and an employee (or the employee's representative).

[s1gsegv]

As I understand it, there's the WARN act both federally and at some state levels (namely California where a lot of this is taking place). They require advance notice of layoffs as a worker protection.

However, companies don't want to give advance notice so instead they immediately "lay you off" by removing access to everything, then give you "notice" that you'll be off payroll in some weeks/months as required by the act.

I'm not a lawyer, it seems like a pretty grey interpretation of the law, but at least this is better than no severance.

[JoshuaEN]

It seems like this is more favorable to those being laid off, effectively being paid to look for a new job.

[derivagral]

Depends on the phrasing. I've had to sign a (legal contract) "release of claims" to get what's commonly called a "severance package", which legally for unemployment are separate things. An actual "severance" doesn't require a signature, or so the office told me. IANAL and every state will be different.

[pydry]

In America you get treated better if you have some money, a lot better if you have a lot and like a god if you have really a lot.

In Europe the floor and the ceiling of how you get treated is more compressed. Hitting rock bottom is more comfortable but being a software developer? Probably not.

These payouts are probably to ward off lawsuits that developers can afford, but retail workers could not.

[lm28469]

Well yeah in our perfect little tech world of high paying desk jobs it's all fun and games

Now do you get 6 months severance as a truck driver ? construction worker ? cashier ?

btw big tech companies also often offer packages in Europe, on top of the state sponsored unemployment benefits

[preommr]

Even if you get laid off, the difference in salaries is enough to coast for months if not years.

[themitigating]

That depends on if that person has savings. I got into debt after losing my job two years ago. I finally got another two months ago and have been using my paycheck to pay credit cards.

[jacobyoder]

Have gone through spells of no income (job loss, etc) and doing it with no savings vs savings is... far less stressful. And the sun rises in the east - Capt Obvious here. With a tightened, budget, we've got a burn rate of around $3k/month. Loose budget, might be $4k/month. At this rate, we've got probably 2-3 years of cash to weather some 'no income' time period. There's still some stress and other emotions come up without 'real income' coming in, but nothing like going slowly in to debt while not seeing any way out.

Glad you got another job, and hopefully you're getting out of debt again, and ideally you can build a larger safety net for the future.

[themitigating]

I won't be out of debt for another year. I'm not blaming anyone either. I had savings but not enough and I should have been more careful.

I do get angry when I see people practically foaming at the mouth when Twitter employees get fired. When they are asked about whether it's right their response is something like "big tech employees deserve".

[jacobyoder]

Somewhat similar reaction - not specifically to Twitter folks, but in general 'techbro' type situations, where people think $500k comp is normal, expected, or hell, even 'deserved'. You got lucky (genetics, right place/right time, etc) along with whatever talent and hard work you've put in.

Have been in your situation where I got in to debt (mid 5 figures). Even after getting new jobs, it was a few years of grind to get back to 0, then several more to have some semblance of long-term savings, all while reducing consumption/expenditures dramatically.

Unsure what "not enough" was, but the standard "3 months" savings advice - even doubling to 6 - is really at the low end. For mid-career software folks, I recommend people aiming for at least a couple years of cash-like savings. Yes, it's hard, but it's easier than in many other professions.

[decafninja]

Depends on the salary. FAANG or other FAANG tier companies? I’d agree with you.

Some random no name startup or boring non tech company? The US salary is likely higher than the European equivalent but not enough to bulldoze away the European social benefits.

[ye-olde-sysrq]

Part of it specifically unique to software and is because companies are terrified of getting a bad name since it'll make hiring so much harder. Lots of companies have average tenures of 2-3 years so if you're not constantly hiring like 30% of your current headcount each year, you're going to be shrinking.

(I could rant about how it didn't need to be this way and that between noncompetes, nonsolicits, aggressive perf processes, and giving shitty raises the turnover is entirely their own fault and everyone would be happier job hopping less. But that's a rant for another time.)

[sneak]

It's entirely voluntary by the companies to save their brand.

Nothing requires it and there are no standards. If they don't like you and you get fired (which they can do without cause or reason or explanation) then you get nothing.

[ResearchCode]

Don't forget the 3 month - 2 year probation period. You're at-will for a large part of your average tenure for a quarter of the US pay. US might be more progressive than large part of Europe in some regards, like protection against discrimination of people with criminal records or those with different political opinions.

Retail or manual labor in US is probably worse.

[nebula8804]

I always thought putting your picture on your resume seemed strange. I have seen it as common practice in Europe and non-existent in the US. Thats another pro that the US has got going for it.

[haliskerbas]

From what I understand things like healthcare and sometimes housing have a better safety net. So while a software developer in the US could quickly be out of health coverage, one in Europe would have different outcome potentially.

[squokko]

Tech is on another planet. Silicon Valley companies usually give 3 paid months of maternity leave but if you work at McDonalds you get 0 days and are sometimes back on your feet 3 days after giving birth.

[brailsafe]

I just got news of being laid off but have no details yet. What's the standard for severance in EU?