[maxcan]

SF's homicide rate is low, lower in fact than Miami.

But, its non-violent crime and property crime numbers are through the roof which makes it feel incredibly unsafe.

Miami, on the other hand, actually has a higher homicide rate than SF but because the streets are clean and property crime is much much lower it feels far safer than SF. Also, to be honest, for people reading hacker news, homicides are an incredibly rare black swan event, unlike property crime which you experience almost daily in SF. So, it makes sense for this crowd to have a place higher utility on low property crime than on low homicides. And I'm not judging, I moved to Miami and couldn't be happier with that decision.

[WanderPanda]

It also matters a lot how the parties in the homicide are related, no? If it is people not knowing each other it is much more scary (and worse I would argue) than if it is something like iside circles of organized crime.

[maxcan]

Exactly. I suspect (without much evidence) that most murders in Miami are gang related, so even less likely to affect HN readers whereas in SF it feels more random.

[NickC25]

Dunno if that's true - the murders that happen in SoBe during Black Beach Week aren't usually gang related, it's usually some drunk idiot with a gun and a fancy rental car trying to flex or show off, and someone willing to take the bait. Sad, but that's the reality.

The murders that happen in my part of town are usually drug-related, like an OD or, in the case of my neighbor, a drunk and jealous girlfriend with access to a firearm.

[maxcan]

SoBe murders don't count towards Miami city's total. I was speaking more about Miami city than MDC.

[NickC25]

Also a Miami resident (of 7 years), I lived in Oakland in 2014 and spent a lot of time in SF.

Parts of Miami are definitely cleaner, and some parts of Miami are pretty bad too, if not worse (parts of Wynwood, particularly south of the Wynwood Arcade used to be filled with homeless tents; and that's to say nothing of Liberty City, Little Haiti, etc.. ). However, Miami looks nicer but in many aspects there's some real trash beyond the facade. My building is under 5 years old, in a great (and growing) part of town, yet has had multiple murders in it. I used to live at Icon Bay, which had a literal drug lord living in one of the penthouses until there was a large-scale raid that forced him out. The FBI literally has a unit in my complex because they are here all the time - drug rings, prostitution rings, kidnapping, etc... are all happening right under your nose, but since the perps drive a Benz and walk around in a $250 pair of sneakers, it's less in-your-face (and more socially accepted) than some homeless dude in the Tenderloin shooting up heroin and taking a shit on the sidewalk. One guy in my elevator line was moving weed by the pound on a regular basis like it was nothing, and I had no idea until the property manager pointed out that they had recently been arrested on felony drug charges. Another in my building wears an ankle monitor yet owns a fleet of exotic cars. It's so much harder to tell here than anywhere else I've lived....until you know what to look for.

And that's to say nothing of the outrageous amount of scams here, particularly medicare/medicaid fraud. I'd take the homeless guy who shits on the sidewalk any day over the guy who stole millions from medicare and drives around in a Ferrari.

At least in SF/Bay Area, you can tell who the trashy folks are, and who the mentally ill people are. In Florida, they are allowed to scam the government, drive around in flashy cars, and better yet - they can buy guns and carry them around, loaded, without a permit.

[maxcan]

This is 100% consistent with my experience in Miami.

But, personally, I'd rather have the medicare-fraud-guy than the shits-on-the-street guy in my neighborhood. The former hurts me a little no matter where they live, the latter hurts me a lot but only if they are nearby.