[misslibby]

The usual list. He clearly isn't a leftist and it angers a lot of people very much that he doesn't automatically follow the leftist commands. Doesn't make him evil or a liar. And for example making a prediction that turns out wrong also isn't a lie. It is just an opinion.

[shadowgovt]

The lies make him a liar, not his political-spectrum position.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholde...

[misslibby]

Lawsuits don't prove he lied.

[shadowgovt]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/22/23474381/elon-musk-twitt...

https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1596118994565894145?lan...

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4020362-who-you-gonna-belie...

You can keep defending him if you want, but the preponderance of evidence is not on his side. On average, I would no longer consider Elon Musk a reliable source.

[misslibby]

You are incredible.

1.) he doesn't have to justify reinstating Trump at all. People who banned a sitting president have to justify their actions 2.) Seriously, what the fuck - you want to hold his dying child against him? This is ridiculous nitpicking, you can say "it died in his arms" even if he wasn't holding his child all the time. You should take a long hard look into the mirror and ponder what your irrational hatred does to your personality. 3.) A couple of cars with a tiny discount proves what? A list of 30 cars, with a generously calculated average discount of 3%, out of probably thousands sold?

Keep hating, though. Your hatred is irrelevant.

[shadowgovt]

I don't hate Musk. By-and-large, he earned his way into the money he's made.

... but some of that earning was done via deception. Look at the history of billionaire CEOs, and you quickly learn that bending or breaking with the truth is pretty much mandatory at some point in their careers to win the game. They are salespeople for the firms they helm, and a certain amount of sales is based on deception (information asymmetry is the beating heart of the engine of profit).

If anything, one can tip one's hat to him for winning the game he's playing so well. The game itself may be of questionable virtue, but he's an excellent player of it.

(Possibly except for this Twitter acquisition. That was a weird move. I don't think it's working out the way he'd hoped).

The only lie he tells consistently that I hold against him is Tesla's FSD. Even the name is incorrect in terms of what the technology is capable of, and it's a lie that gets naive people killed when they believe the marketing hype and turn over full control of their vehicle to a technology that is not yet reliable.

[misslibby]

Iirc there was one event that might qualify as deception, when he claimed he already had funding secured from some entity and that made some other entity (the government?) also give him funding. That first entity ended up also giving him funding.

Can't say I rank that very high in terms of deceptions, as it doesn't involve the actual product, and also, in the end it was true that entity 1 also gave them funding. And entity 2 could have given funding under the condition that entity 1 gives funding, to be safe.

As for FSD, as far as I know it is still officially in beta and they officially say you can't rely on it just yet. I don't share his optimism for its development, but it seems conceivable that he legitimately thought it was doable in the timeframe he imagined. I don't think missing delivery dates really counts as lie. Companies do it all the time, even companies like Apple. They announce they are working on product x and expect to have it ready at time y, and frequently they miss the date y by years of sometimes even scrap the product completely.

I also haven't heard of an increase in accidents because of Tesla FSD. The accidents that happens seem to all make the news and on close scrutiny turn out to be nothingburgers.

Edit: this seems to suggest that Teslas with autopilot have far fewer accidents than normal cars https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1144/teslas-using-autopilo... - I supposer you can find all sorts of other statistics, though. I haven't really looked into them. Googling, one finds many headlines of the sort "most vehicles involved in automated driving accidents are Teslas" which are of course misleading bullshit, as presumably that is just an artefact of the much higher number of Teslas on the road.