[the-cakeboss]

Can you honestly say that the pirate bay isn't dedicated, and almost exclusively used for the distribution of material protected by copyright? Drawing attention to the fact that he hasn't cited any specific research on what is plainly evident for everyone does nothing to promote an adult discussion about the topic. Furthermore, claiming that the author hates extroverts due to some underlaying psychological issues is really unnecessary.

Why is it so hard to have an open, honest, mature discussion about piracy and the pirate bay? All the attempts to make P2P out to be some political statement, is highly disingenuous in my opinion. I pirate quite regularly. But it is never about some lofty ideals regarding personal freedoms, or commentary on corporate influence, in truth, I just want something, which happens to be easily and readily accessed, free of charge. Is this stealing? I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think its a close cousin. Is it a plus for society, and something that ought to be fostered? Quite possibly.

Why not talk about this stuff and stop acting like piracy is some noble pursuit?

I find it hard to believe that anyone seriously believes that the pirate bay is an agent promoting peace within the world, and liberating oppressed peoples. Why do we kid ourselves?

[toyg]

Can you honestly say that the pirate bay isn't dedicated, and almost exclusively used for the distribution of material protected by copyright?

Well, we don't know. There might be zillions of long-tail torrents with one seeder and three peers, distributing legal stuff, but I personally don't go around spouting numbers like the parent poster.

Furthermore, claiming that the author hates extroverts due to some underlaying psychological issues is really unnecessary.

Yup, it was an ad-hominem as much as parent's statement was an ad-hominem ("they enjoy the attention", etc etc).

Why is it so hard to have an open, honest, mature discussion about piracy and the pirate bay?

Because of the Overton window.

Agents on one side (the copyright mafia) lie through their teeth and have access to every propaganda channel and every established power. Internet people always end up on the defensive, and the window is pushed further and further into insanity.

For twenty years, us geeks have had open, honest, mature discussions about piracy, both among ourselves and with the copyright mafia, and it has done exactly ZERO amount of good, they are still pushing as hard as in the Napster days; now it's our time to be unreasonable. It's not our responsibility to be reasonable or amenable, we simply build and use the technology and make our requests very clear; the political system will have to work out a "just" balance or compromise of some sort, or criminalize us all and live with the consequences.

[idiocracyreigns]

Can you honestly say that the pirate bay isn't dedicated, and almost exclusively used for the distribution of material protected by copyright?

No, but I can't say that about the Internet at-large, either. Practically everything is protected by copyright, including the beloved Linux source.

[the-cakeboss]

Fair enough. Perhaps I should clarify, and say "the illegal distribution of material protected by copyright".

Its incredible how obtuse people become when discussing this issue.

[burgerbrain]

Would you be distressed if I made a website dedicated to encouraging and facilitating jaywalking? That is quite illegal in some jurisdictions you know.

How about one dedicated to supporting/encouraging arson as political speech? Horror of all horrors: http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm !

This "some places it is illegal" == "it is immoral" attitude is rather tyring.

[the-cakeboss]

The focus of my comment was never about the morality of pirating, but rather my perceived difficulty in having an intelligent and honest conversation about it. While I did briefly touch on my thoughts about its morality, I made sure to state that matter was up for debate.

When we are talking about piracy I am amazed that people entertain the notion that the Pirate Bay is somehow liberating oppressed peoples all over the world ( as was implied in the release... ). We aren't talking about leaked government documents here, we are talking about last night's episode of Glee. All of this nonsense merely detracts and distracts for the real issue at hand.

Furthermore, I have found time and time again that people become exceedingly argumentative and obtuse when these issues are discussed, denying and arguing every claim no matter how well accepted or understood it is. I mean, can we really not agree that the Pirate Bay is primarily dedicated to distributing copyrighted material illegally? Is it really necessary for me to dig up a source and provide a citation for that claim?

In direct response to your question, I would not be distressed by such a site, nor does the existence of the pirate bay cause me distress. What might irritate me about such a site however is if it were to claim that jaywalking laws were not in place to control traffic and provide safe crossing to pedestrians, but instead to oppress the people of a city or some other nonsense along the same lines. It would irritate me if its supporters some deep conviction for it and when questioned about their beliefs, immediately assume those unlike them derive their morality from law.

I pirate content a lot. I am a member of a private tracker, and for awhile I rented out a seedbox to maintain my ratio. Never once though, have I ever felt entitled to the things I downloaded. Never once did I try to justify my downloading with anything other than the fact that it is super convenient and free. Why you think I'm so dull as to never question the word of law is beyond me. I never once said anything to suggest legality is equivalent to morality. I may even go so far as to say this conclusion you've made is indicative to the very thing I'm speaking of. I mean, it takes some rather large assumptions to reach that conclusion based upon my comments.

[burgerbrain]

Most people use freedom of speech to talk about trivial, illegal, or irrelevant things. But so what? That is their right.

"We aren't talking about leaked government documents here"

In numerous cases, we are actually...

Listen. If information freedom isn't a particularly important issue to you, then so be it. For many people it is however, no matter how 'trivial' the bulk of the information may be. It is apparent that the Pirate Bay operators are among the group of people who think this way.

[funkah]

> Its incredible how obtuse people become when discussing this issue.

You said it, cake boss.

[waterhouse]

> an open, honest, mature discussion about piracy

If you'd be satisfied with the discussion in a book (as opposed to interactive discussion on a forum), you might look here: http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.ht...