[MinorTom]

(I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just making this clear for anyone else reading. also: comment talks about suicide)

> In the old days they pretty much had to learn to accept themselves for who they were and not worry about what other people thought, both because no one was encouraging them they deserved acceptance and because few would have budged.

According to scientific research, around 1/3 of patients with gender dysphoria have attempted suicide in the past. The only medically accepted treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. If you're advocating against that then you're advocating in favor of preventable suffering & deaths.

Also, using human nature as an argument is fallacious.

https://www.psicothema.com/pdf/4483.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9501960/

re re:

I understood your comment to be against social acceptance of trans people, (and honestly still do. Admittedly this isn't a best-faith interpretation of your comment, but it made sense in the context I read it in. )

Therefore, my comment wasn't intended to be only about available medical treatment options (including surgical), but also about social acceptance of trans people, which is a kinda important part of all of this.

If that's not how you intended to mean your comment, that's great, because I agree with you on the medial/surgical side of things.

[notch898a]

I've replied above (due to rate-limiting timeout, had to capture my thoughts there earlier).

I have no interest in stopping consenting adult trans or any other person from any surgery/treatment, regardless of how efficacious or not it is. But do not make the mistake of believing because it is the only medically accepted treatment of gender dysphoria (which is curiously a treatment for something that is not even a disorder or illness), that it must be the path to least suffering and death.

[MinorTom]

(I wrote this reply as a comment edit originally, but I'm making this it's own comment.)

I understood your comment to be against social acceptance of trans people, (and honestly still do. Admittedly this isn't a best-faith interpretation of your comment, but it made sense in the context I read it in. )

Therefore, my comment wasn't intended to be only about available medical treatment options (including surgical), but also about social acceptance of trans people, which is a kinda important part of all of this.

If that's not how you intended to mean your comment, that's great, because I agree with you on the medial/surgical side of things.

--

(Reply to the parent comment:)

It is the best-currently-known-path for least suffering and death. And a lot better than the currently-known alternatives. I'm not trying to say that no better treatment might become available in the future.

(Aside: gender dysphoria is listed in the DSM-5, which is important for health insurance purposes, amongst other reasons. It was previously named gender identity disorder, but was renamed due to the stigma associated with the term disorder. There was also the diagnosis of "transsexualism" (which included homosexuality, amongst others) and the inclusion of these issues in the DSM remains a topic of debate.)

[notch898a]

I have to admit I've had to try really hard to not get sucked into this side debate on the efficacy of transition. I've found conflicting data here, I'm willing to acknowledge it may be true that it leads to better outcomes for many individuals. In any case, as I've said, there's little I can act on there as I have no right to impose that kind of control on others.

I am intrigued by the intersectionality of transition and social acceptance. You seem to have been following some research here, what have you found regarding the social acceptance of trans persons before and after transition? Are they finding more social acceptance after treatment?

[MinorTom]

That's not what I meant, exactly. I'm just trying to argue that we should allow people to transition (from a social perspective, not just a medical one) and respect them and their new gender.

(I don't think they're finding more social acceptance after transition, with some light exceptions as the realization and acceptance of their dysphoria allowes them to find more accepting social circles, and some probably are less accepted by their environment after.)

(I'm also not an expert at this, I've just been parroting some well-known takes but I've looked at research to back them up, as "Source: Reddit" isn't the most convincing)