[tristor]

> Why are russians punished for the sins of their government?

Because they are participating in this governance. Countries bear responsibility collectively for their actions. And yes, absolutely Americans should be held to the same standards.

[eldenwrong]

Easy to say when your government has committed worse atrocities and you've never suffered for it

[tristor]

It’s true that I’ve never personally suffered for any of the bad deeds of the US government. There are several reasons for that, some nakedly political, but for the most part because when someone in the US government does something horrible it’s not officially approved nor is it accepted and lauded by the people.

Take Abu Ghraib, clearly wrongdoing on the part of the government. The folks involved were exposed, prosecuted, and punished. The revelations of the incident kicked off a top down investigation of how military interrogations are performed and a public report on the matter. Politicians were unseated and hands on perpetrators were imprisoned.

Contrast that with the current situation where Putin receives widespread support from Russian people for committing war crimes while invading Ukraine and the perpetrators were rewarded. I cannot think of any “worse atrocities” the US has committed in my living memory.

There are arguably several situations in US history that should have led to prosecutions that didn’t, such as how we behaved regarding Iraq as another commenter pointed out. I do bear responsibility for that with other Americans, but as you have pointed out we did not suffer the consequences, mostly for political reasons.

[eldenwrong]

Weren't most americans supporting the "war on terror"?

And weren't all your president approving drone strikes on kids and families for decades?

The level of propaganda that americans consume is not to different to the one of russians.

Ofc it didn't help that Ukraine was harboring entire Nazi battalions.

Just think if China was putting a military base in the mexican border and Mexico hired Nazis to fight for them. What would the international response would be like? Not too difficult to imagine eh?

[tristor]

Ah okay, you're not legitimately criticizing the US, you're a Russian troll. I see. You played your hand a little too strong there.

Ukraine was not harboring "Nazi battalions". The US has never intentionally targeted children with drone strikes. Both of these things are ridiculous to even state.

The news media in the US absolutely engages in propaganda, however it's usually for the benefit of the wealthy, not so much for the benefit of the government. In the US, you get unedited access to news from around the world, it is a trivial matter to read Channel NewsAsia (from Singapore), Al Jazeera (from Qatar), or Der Spiegel (from Germany) in English on the Internet, all of which are much less friendly to US policy interests globally and are more than happy to write scathingly about US behaviors abroad.

Good luck to you.

[eldenwrong]

Ever heard of the Azov battalion?

Oh sorry the US does it constantly by mistake. Its just stuck on a loop.

As if the government and the wealthy weren't extremely closely related. One even might say "twins"

[isubkhankulov]

What about Venezuela? Should its citizens be punished for Maduro's actions?

[danielodievich]

That was exactly the anguished complaint of my friend in Australia, who is trying to help his family - and with whom he actually does not see eye to eye on the war situation (they are pro or at least acquiescent, he is adamantly against). But they have no money and he wants to help. Just rereading our thread from last year where he says "yeah, they're Zed patriots, they are also sure that their government is fighting global Nazism and global USA hegemony for the betterment of everyone, but should they go hungry because of their beliefs?". My answer was "yes".

[BLKNSLVR]

Respect for your honesty about both the situation and in answer to your friend.

[eldenwrong]

Not too different from americans believing the war on terror was about freedom.

Did they get any sanctions? Nah

[Tao3300]

Always a nice thing to tell your friends.