[Thaxll]

Such a terrible idea, let's build something that everyone else has a solution for, we're on our own with our custom solutions that no one else know or use.

We'll see how many years it will take them to come back to Kubernetes or equivalent.

And the argument k8s is too complicated so build our own looks really bad from an engineering perspective.

When you look at the issues: https://github.com/mrsked/mrsk/issues/44 you can some see trivial shortcoming that has been solved for years by other solutions.

[FridgeSeal]

> When you look at the issues: https://github.com/mrsked/mrsk/issues/44

Wow. That’s uh, that’s certainly a decision.

> They're the same service, because they're running the same image

If something purports to “run my containers” and “be an alternative to K8s”, I’d kind of expect it to run whatever it’s told. Whether running identical containers on the same host is a good thing or not really depends on your architectures choices and trade offs. Blindly being like “you can’t have this because reasons” makes this whole tool a giant non-starter IMO.

[datadeft]

And use IP addresses like it was 1999 again. Your IP addresses belong to exactly one location, the DNS server's config. Using a non-type safe configuration language is also meh. I am not sure why most people are unaware of Dhall...

[mr_ndrsn]

IP addresses are easy to use in the configurations that inspired mrsk. Small apps that are fairly static. There are two main problems that mrsk is trying to solve.

1. Moving our stuff out of the cloud without going back to static hosts. 2. Giving new rails devs a tool where they can deploy their application easily, in a modern fashion.

Both of these are not so large or complex that you must use hostnames in configs instead of IP addresses. I will note, that most of our internal configs, do in fact, use hostnames rather than IP's. But judging a tool because an example used an IP address seems shortsighted.

There are plenty of things in mrsk to discuss without fixating on that.

[datadeft]

>> 1. Moving our stuff out of the cloud without going back to static hosts.

I move companies between clouds and on-prem to cloud, cloud to on-prem (even though a bit bigger one than 37singnals) and I could use tools like Ansible and Terraform. In my experience when a smaller company starts to writes tools that solve the imaginary problems of the CTO they are not focusing on solving customer problems and this usually ends badly.

>> 2. Giving new rails devs a tool where they can deploy their application easily, in a modern fashion

Could you share the comparison chart of tools that you considered? What thought process led you to believe that this is an unsolved problem and requires a new tool? Genuinely interested.

>> But judging a tool because an example used an IP address seems shortsighted.

How should I judge it by than? Reading the code? Figuring out how to hold it right myself?

[mr_ndrsn]

> I move companies between clouds and on-prem to cloud, cloud to on-prem (even though a bit bigger one than 37singnals) and I could use tools like Ansible and Terraform.

Where did anyone say we don't use other tools? Chef + Terraform are wonderful and still in use for us.

> Could you share the comparison chart of tools that you considered? What thought process led you to believe that this is an unsolved problem and requires a new tool? Genuinely interested.

Your phrasing here and in your previous quoted reply leads me to believe you're not genuinely interested. Our environment is not your environment, our experiences are not your experiences. No, I can't share a chart of other tools that were considered, but off the top of my head, Capistrano, various CI integrations, Github Actions, etc.

We're a rails shop. We're going to look at tools in that area. We're not going to go dig into dagger or garden.io or something that causes us to have to conform our dev/deploy environment to a mental model that adds more friction for our developers.

> How should I judge it by than? Reading the code? Figuring out how to hold it right myself?

It's not that complicated of code, only about 2k, total, IIRC? I mean, you could read it. I'm baffled that you're choosing to compare a structural design flaw like the iPhone antennae issue to the fact that a configuration example in a new tool used an IP address. Go off, king.

[the-lazy-guy]

> In my experience when a smaller company starts to writes tools that solve the imaginary problems of the CTO they are not focusing on solving customer problems and this usually ends badly.

Like writing their own web framework in obscure programming language?

[datadeft]

> Like writing their own web framework in obscure programming language?

Which caused the biggest spike in CO2 production for recorded human history while making operation teams rage-quit their job over undefined method [] for nil messages?

Disclaimer I love Ruby and Rails to death.

[nine_k]

Dhall lacks a killer app that would use it. (Write one!)

[datadeft]

k8s is a pretty good one. I would not touch k8s without Dhall:

https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-kubernetes

[davedx]

Kubernetes is terrible, I hate it with a passion, and welcome any alternatives that reduce the complexity (as it the stated vision of MRSK)

[growse]

Which bit, the APIs or the implementation?

[firemelt]

As an engineer reading this makes me feel ashamed

[axelthegerman]

> And the argument k8s is too complicated so build our own looks really bad from an engineering perspective.

On the other hand, React is too complicated if you just need a bit of JavaScript on your mostly HTML/CSS page... So now you can use Hotwire if you like.

I don't see what's so bad about that (same things as MRSK and k8s)

[throwaway110535]

Same could’ve been said for Rails…

[mbreese]

Honestly, the same could have been said about K8s when it was started too.

There’s nothing wrong with multiple projects in a space. It’s a big market with different niches.