[Blikkentrekker]

> Not sure what you mean.

Many of the things one can at least ask permissions for as I read it on the Apple system are actually purposefully simply not available due to similar concerns.

Many of the leading Wayland developers believe in this. The Enlightenment lead developer for instance does not believe a programmatic way to make screenshots or listen to keypresses should ever exist. I had some debates with him about this and he believes the risks are too high as well as revealing that he seemed to believe that streaming videogames did not work by way of a third party tool that captures the screen contents, but that each video game had this functionality built in, which is certainly not the case and that he believes this might explain his reluctance for such an a.p.i. to facilitate this.

> But at any rate, Wayland is completely optional. You can keep running X and nobody will stop you. People will keep running X without issue for a very long time. This is very different from what the Apple world is like.

Opinions are divided on that matter. The reality is that many of the developers of Xorg have abandoned in in lieu of Wayland and many Wayland developers, many former Xorg developers are clear in their opinion that they see it as a replacement, not an alternative and eventually expect everyone to switch.

Whether that will happen is anyone's guess. They are often met with counter arguments that Xorg and the X11 protocol itself simply has features that many businesses and private individuals need for their lifelihood so there is going to be commercial incentive to pick up maintainership should they abandon it. They have also conceded heavily already on many of the features they initially said where either unneeded or a security risk when they realized the reality that many people outside of their bubble did use them. Libinput originally did not have any mouse acceleration settings on the argument that no one would want to turn it off or fine tune it to begin with, but now has it when they realized that unlike what they thought, demand for the ability to fine tune or turn off mouse acceleration is higher than they anticipated.

[jech]

> The Enlightenment lead developer for instance does not believe a programmatic way to make screenshots or listen to keypresses should ever exist.

Rasterman is entitled to his opinion, but every production-ready Wayland server ("compositor") implements an extension to do screenshots:

  * Weston: https://wayland.app/protocols/weston-screenshooter
  * Sway and friends: https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1
  * KDE: https://wayland.app/protocols/kde-zkde-screencast-unstable-v1

They haven't been able to agree on one common extension yet, granted, but the functionality is available.

[asveikau]

>> People will keep running X without issue for a very long time

> Opinions are divided on that matter.

I feel like those holding the opposite opinion are pretty clearly wrong and it seems to be some kind of hubris. Fortunately their opinion is not binding.

> The reality is that many of the developers of Xorg have abandoned in in lieu of Wayland and many Wayland developers,

Not an issue. It doesn't need a lot of maintenance. It's "done". Source is available too. Just needs minimal effort to keep the lights on. As long as someone is interested in running it, as many will be, it will happen.

[Blikkentrekker]

That is a very wrong view of something that communicates so closely with the hardware and deals with graphics.

It's very much chasing a moving target of new graphics technology and many of the innovations made by Wayland have been ported to Xorg. The interesting thing is that screen tearing used to be a problem on Xorg but never was on Wayland but much of the technology responsible for that has now found it's way into Xorg to make it a thing of the past there too. Of course integration with new hardware drivers is also required.

It's entirely possible it will continue to be maintained that way, or that the Wayland philosophy will finally be broken and these things will be added once they realize there is a great enough demand, but these are all possibilities, not certainties.