[xeromal]

I'm convinced a lot of our issues is just our general lost of testosterone and ability to conceive kids. Our bodies are just becoming worse and worse and conceiving and bearing children.

Probably microplastics coupled with a sedentary lifestyle.

[kibwen]

Despite the hormonal changes induced by microplastics/obesity (or whatever the culprit is), the current drop in fertility rates is not because people are incapable of conceiving, but rather because people cannot financially support the cost of having children. If governments want children, they need to start paying for it: guaranteed paid maternity and paternity leave, state-funded daycare, and reduced housing costs. People are simply concluding that it is better to not have children than to raise children in abject poverty.

[xeromal]

I just don't agree with this argument because humans have been having boatloads of children during all terrible-to-live eras of human history.

[lotsofpulp]

How many of those eras did women have access to very effective birth control, or the ability to say no to sex (or simply opt out of entering into a relationship with a man for her future security)?

[xeromal]

When you frame it this way, you're telling me that given the choice women would not want to have children which means there's nothing wrong with our declining fertility rates. People simply don't want children anymore.

[lotsofpulp]

It is not that simple. At any given time, there are probably numerous factors affecting a woman's decision of whether or not to want children. Maybe lots of women do, but they are unable to secure their requisite lifestyle. Maybe lots of women have an unreasonable requirement of their lifestyle after having kids.

All I know is having seen my wife give birth twice, I am not in a position to judge. It is an enormous risk and sacrifice, the likes of nothing that I (as a man living in a peaceful society) have come close to having to make.

[AstralStorm]

More like the woman is expected to shoulder a burden that normally took a few people working and being paid not that long ago. Even with modern technology helping, it's quite a bit.

Domestic service takes effort! Doing that and childcare 100% is hard too plus there's the small problem of not earning money which makes the "traditional" (actually imagined) family structure untenable.

And we cannot go back when villages don't exist and people do not have generationally recognized neighbors. We could try to begin rebuilding that structure at high cost...

[im3w1l]

Back then it was poverty with children or poverty without children. Now it's a poor life with children or a rich one without.

I'd postulate that a big reason here is that children have been separated from labor in two ways. The first is that it used to be acceptable to do work while minding children. The second is that children would be used to help out from a fairly young age.

[beardedman]

Pretty good point actually.