[hayst4ck]

While there are very jaded views about cultural superiority and other things like that. I think the truth is probably less cynical.

I can move to japan and marry a Japanese wife, work for a Japanese company, pay Japanese taxes, and speak fluent Japanese, but I will never be Japanese because my skin is white.

People can move to America, and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American.

If the place you move will assimilate you, then I would call that migrancy. If the place you move will never accept you, then I would call that ex-patriotism.

People who move to civil societies migrate, people who move to ethnic societies become ex-patriots.

I strongly recommend reading this: https://www.amacad.org/publication/what-does-it-mean-be-amer...

It really puts into perspective conservatism and liberalism by showing their contextual effects on immigration.

[nitwit005]

How accepted you are has nothing to do with you being an immigrant or not. You immigrated. It's the act of living permanently in a foreign country.

[hayst4ck]

We're talking about a colloquial understanding and use of those words, not a technical definition.

[andrekandre]

  > I will never be Japanese because my skin is white.

for some reason i find this statement kind of strange... are you saying "japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"?

  > and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American.

n=1 but this has not been my experience....

  > and speak fluent Japanese

without accent?

[adastra22]

Not the person you are replying to, but I have experience here. It’s both. For most Japanese, nationality is intrinsically tied to ethnicity, and cannot be changed.

[hayst4ck]

> n=1 but this has not been my experience....

I don't doubt your experience. I was projecting myself onto others, probably too much...

America is a big place. If you don't have that experience in big west coast cities, I would be a bit surprised. Likewise, I would expect well educated folks to also assume that lack of accent means American, not in an intentional way, but an automatic one.

There are large swathes of the US that I doubt would see anyone who isn't a white evangelical christian as American.

My intention was not to be black and white or absolutist, though I see how what I said reads that way.

> without accent?

Yes

> are you saying "Japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"?

In a way, I meant both. I meant for a Japanese person to apply the word "Japanese" to me casually. To see me as part of "us" when a Japanese person says "us" to mean Japanese.

I think if you read the article I linked, what I am trying to express will be clear. It is an extremely meaty read, but I feel like it is somewhat like taking the red pill when it comes to understanding politics and the political forces that govern us. American education has poked at the ideas in that article without providing the philosophical basis. I've heard "diversity" so many times, but never a real, non hand-wavy, explanation of why diversity is important or why we apply energy to it.

[justusw]

I would argue that the path to Japanese citizenship is easier than being seen as Japanese. One is a pre-defined legal process, the other one depends on the complexities of what is cultural identity.

[rendang]

The word is spelled expatriate, it isn't a derivative of "patriot" btw

[hayst4ck]

Thank you for the correction. I think I typed "expatriot" and used the closest suggestion from the right click menu without thinking about it too much. Embarrassing, but such is life.

[kwere]

funnily, foreigners can never acquire chinese citizenship unless some chinese ancestry and/or enough connection in high places. Legal Naturalizations are a few hundreds a year, on a foreign population of 850 thousands