[hayst4ck]

I am not an expat, but I was considering spending several months in China.

After Hong Kong, there was a strong message of "Americans caused this," likewise after covid there was a strong message of "this didn't start in China, this actually started in America."

It wasn't just a message of "America is our enemy," but looking at how the People in Hong Kong were robbed of due process from an impartial justice system it was clear that if there was a problem we would also not get due process.

The Canadians arrested without due process in response to Huawei leaders being arrested was another story that says "China might do bad things to you in response to things you don't have control over."

As an American I felt it was made clear that we were the enemy and we would not get due process.

I was planning to spend several months in China, but chose not to because of Hong Kong. My choice was re-inforced because of the covid response.

I am open to the idea that international media was being unfair to China, but I had experiences which made me realize this was not the case.

- I met a person who just got out of china. She was an early 20s English teacher who didn't know why she was put in prison, but spent a couple weeks in Chinese prison until the US state department said 'give her back, now.' She figured she failed some kind of political question she was asked or made a statement about Taiwan she shouldn't have. She said she probably would still be there if her boyfriend hadn't called the US state department saying he hasn't heard from her and didn't know what happened.

- Another woman I met on a plane said that the people who ran the school she taught at threatened to revoke her visa trapping her in China. She said she was leaving for "vacation" but was not going to go back. She was also visibly shaken.

- A Hong Kong person I met broke down the way China was destroying Hong Kong culture and acting like an imperial ruler.

- Hong Kong went from feeling like a lively place to feeling like a dominated place. The energy left the city.

- Seeing the video of Triads in the train station made it clear that the Chinese government was in bed with organized crime. Seeing triads be the foot soldiers of the CPC was something I had never seen before. It made it clear that if China wanted to achieve a goal, it would use any method regardless of how right or wrong it is. It was just one more element of "our legal system is pretext, we will do what we want."

- I spent some time in China with a Chinese woman and she was constantly "correcting" me about any implication that Hong Kong or Taiwan was a country. It made me realize that I can't just hide my beliefs, they will manifest in my language, and that will put me at risk.

[nonethewiser]

> "this didn't start in China, this actually started in America."

How did the reasoning work here? Not sure if this speaks to poor education, propaganda, something else, or all of the above.

[simonh]

There's a conspiracy theory propagated in China that Covid was a biological weapon spread in Wuhan by Americans visiting during an international sporting event in late 2019.

[elbigbad]

Probably the same way conservative media portrays US joblessness as starting from other countries and their immigrants, and it’s clear that people who consume that media really buy into that way of thinking. People in echo chambers are particularly vulnerable to this sort of propaganda I expect.

[nonethewiser]

I get what you’re saying. I haven’t seen that example from conservative media though. Most of the narratives I see center around illegal immigration, drugs, drain on social services, etc.

[STM32F030R8]

This isn’t a narrative I’ve seen in conservative media. Kind of ironic to bring up echo chambers after that lol.

[paganel]

Based on organisations like the infamous NED [1].

[1] https://www.ned.org/region/asia/hong-kong-china-2021/

[dumpster_fire]

Take a step back and look at how the US blames China for all its woes. Looks the same to me as a non-American non-Chinese. Ideas planted to distract from underlying issues.

[coupdejarnac]

I've followed the Covid situation from the very beginning in Chinese media.

The propaganda was immediate and overwhelming.

[kwere]

fort derrick narrative

[nonethewiser]

> Another woman I met on a plane said that the people who ran the school she taught at threatened to revoke her visa trapping her in China. She said she was leaving for "vacation" but was not going to go back. She was also visibly shaken.

I know someone working as an architect in China and apparently his company holds onto his college degree. Hes concerned he won’t get it back if he doesn’t remain on good terms. I was told this is a common arrangement.

[WheatMillington]

This reads like it was written by someone cosplaying as an adult. A college degree is not an irreplaceable piece of paper to be guarded with your life - otherwise it would live in a vault somewhere. You can trivially have the certificate reprinted.

[Animats]

Less true than it used to be. Here's Stanford's duplicate diploma ordering portal.[1] It's a big deal, there's a lot of verification, and it costs at least US$100.

There's an easier way.[2] "But now it's easier than ever to purchase a fake copy of your diploma. At Same Day Diplomas, we provide high-quality copies of your college diploma. Our products are crafted to match the design, seals, and color of your university's diploma."

Which is why it's become much harder to get a duplicate real one.

There's online third party diploma verification, and it probably works about as badly as most other online credential services.

[1] https://studentservices.stanford.edu/diplomas/how-do-i-order...

[2] https://samedaydiplomas.com/blogs/news/oops-i-lost-my-colleg...

[adastra22]

…so? I never even received my degree certificate. It is a meaningless piece of paper. If an employer wants to verify my credentials, they don’t ask for it. They call/email the school.

[bee_rider]

A $100 cost seems like weak leverage to keep a person in a country.

[nonethewiser]

Do you think I’m lying? Asking because the cosplaying comment. Your reasoning is not lost on me but I see no reason to suggest Im being dishonest.

If it’s that simple he will be relieved to here it. Frankly I’m not sure why it’s such a big deal either.

[hayst4ck]

He is not understanding the mechanics of it.

In America a degree is a piece of paper. I could go to my college and ask for a replacement and they'll give me one for $50-100.

A company could call my college and verify I earned a degree without ever seeing a piece of paper.

I know I've read something similar to what you are saying, so I don't think your comment was bad faith, but I forget the specific mechanics of the type of coercion you are talking about.

I suspect it might be China invalidating a Chinese citizens degree if they do the wrong thing or China invalidating the verification of a degree that's respected in China, leaving a person in China without credentials that are respected in China. Alternatively it might be about controlling people who earned a degree in China.

I couldn't find the type of coercion you were talking easily with google. A simple article explaining the mechanics of what you're talking about would likely clear everything up.

[TMWNN]

> This reads like it was written by someone cosplaying as an adult.

Not necessarily. From my understanding, in Asia the actual diploma is often used as a credential for obtaining employment. (The context is reading about a con man who set up a fake job listing to attract Western job candidates, obtained copies of applicants' diplomas, then used them to construct a fake diploma that he used to get a job for himself.)

[s1artibartfast]

What does that mean? College degrees aren't like passports. Can't you just order a new copy? I haven't seen my college degree in 15 years

[mschild]

I'm not sure I understand this. How are they holding on to his degree? A physical copy? Couldn't he just ask his University for another one?

[jhanschoo]

This is so weird, universities have a service that will clarify the enrolment of its alumni for a small fee, or replace diplomas.