[Eisenstein]

> That, to me, is hedonistic pleasure

Many people (including me) do not take any pleasure in eating. In fact it is a chore. If I had to conform to a vegan diet I would literally not get enough nutrients for lack of motivation.

Your own perspective is not the only perspective.

[boston_clone]

As an athlete that’s been vegan for nearly 5 years, I promise you it’s not that difficult.

But are you truly convinced that your lack of motivation to properly sustain yourself is worth the needless killing of animals and serious impact on the environment? If you’re here asking about moral frameworks and nitpicking definitions, I don’t think you are.

Make the leap; it’s worth it.

[Eisenstein]

> needless killing of animals

I contend it is not needless, and I contend that you are cause of just as much loss of life as I am through your actions. Though those lives may not meet your qualifications because you also make a judgement about what deserves your empathy and what does not -- and you have every right to. However you have no right to judge others.

People who do that come off like that 'born again' uncle everyone has who you have to avoid because you know that they are constantly thinking about how 'saved' they are and how you are walking the wayward path and every second sentence has to do with Jesus or politics centered around Jesus.

You don't care that he has his beliefs but you realize how he has taken one thing that he feels strong about philosophically and refuses to allow anyone else the same dignity of having their own moral compass free of side-eye and proselytizing. And that makes him extremely annoying to be around.

[socraticmethod]

>I contend that you are cause of just as much loss of life as I am through your actions.

That's patently false. More than 85 billion land animals alone are slaughtered annually for food. Trillions if you include sea life. Regardless, any incidental deaths like rats or frogs getting crushed while harvesting vegetables are just not on the same ethical plane as factory farmed animals whose entire purpose for existing is to be slaughtered for mere human flavor preference.

In 2023, eating animals is unnecessary.

[boston_clone]

You have yet to substantiate your position in any way other than a lack of motivation, and the evidence simply doesn't support your assertion that vegans cause just as much loss of life as people who regularly eat animals.

You can check this external source out as a starting point:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-animal/

Then, evaluate counter-arguments on their merits.

[Eisenstein]

> You have yet to substantiate your position in any way other than a lack of motivation

This is a nonsensical statement.

> the evidence simply doesn't support your assertion that vegans cause just as much loss of life as people who regularly eat animals.

We have demonstrated that you ignore the existence of any life form which does not meet you qualifications.

[boston_clone]

you, mere comments above:

> If I had to conform to a vegan diet I would literally not get enough nutrients for lack of motivation.

I sincerely welcome any credible evidence you can provide that feeding animals plants for years and then slaughtering them for a few meals worth of food somehow equates to less use of virtually any resources compared to just eating the damn plants.