Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a developer, I have advised... a number of people to explore "modern C++," where everything is RAII, and you never have to write `new` or `delete`.
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.