[shadowmint]

This is a cool project, and I'm supporting it...

...however, sigh this is exactly what you should _not_ be using kickstarter for.

Kickstarter is not a shop, and I hope that anyone who pledges towards them realizes that they are supporting the project _not buying something_, and those $$$ have absolutely 1) no guarantee on receiving any product or 2) no recourse if anything is defective / wrong / whatever on it.

Kickstarter shouldn't be allowing this sort of project.

[schappim]

Hey Shadowmint,

I think you need to checkout http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project

Cheers,

Marcus

[shadowmint]

Who is responsible for making sure project creators deliver what they promise?

Every creator is responsible for fulfilling the promises of their project. Because projects are usually funded by the friends, fans, and communities around its creator, there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable. Creators are also encouraged to post regular updates about the progress of their project post-funding — communication goes a long way.

--

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Kickstarter FAQ and TOS.

As a project owner, you are not legally obliged to provide anything. It's entirely up to you.

You earn negative karma and never-allowed-on-kickstarter-again status if you mess it up, but that's about it.

Kickstarter is not an ecommerce site. If you're selling things, you should use a shop. Wordpress and paypal will get you off the ground in about 20 minutes.

If you're doing a startup that needs funding to get off the ground, awesome, use kickstarter...

...but not as a shop.

The only point I'm making is that it's deceptive practice to pretend that Kickstarter is a shop, when none of the normal legal provisions apply.

Of course, what you do it entirely up to you, but people should be aware.

[DamonOehlman]

I think what the guys is done is fair enough, although I can definitely see the point you are making. The thing for me about this that makes it more kickstarter like than ready for an online store presence is the fact that it's going to be a few months before I get my hands on some shiny Ninja Blocks.

For some reason I feel more comfortable with pledging money to a small business on kickstarter than through an online store having them say "we'll get it to you in four months time". I realise it's just a slight mental shift, but it really changes the way I look at things.

Perhaps it's time for KickStarter to adapt to the growth in this area, by spinning of a products and projects site (still kickstarted branded and hosted) which does help folks bootstrap small companies that actually need to buy stuff in quantities to make something viable.

[shadowmint]

Yup, totally agree, that'd be an great addition to Kickstarter.

Just shift the pre-sales out of the pledges and into 'we have some accountability' area for people who want to buy something.

Some kind of phased release of the funds to the project if they meet certain delivery milestones or something. I'm sure it could work~

(and you know, be ethical and legal at the same time...)

[DanBC]

They seem to be clear that they're using the cash for tooling and production.

> What's the money for?

> Backers of this project will be helping to create the first production run of Ninja Blocks. Your pledges will enable us to move forward and create more sensors, actuators and add support for more of your favourite web applications!

> Every $1 will help us make Ninja Blocks better!

> Where to next?

> This Kickstarter Project will allow us to put the final polish on our prototypes and be able to afford the tooling and parts needed for production. [...]

[schappim]

Hi Mate,

>> "If you're doing a startup that needs funding to get off the ground, awesome, use kickstarter"

That's exactly what we're doing! As previously mentioned, unlike software projects, hardware requires tooling, parts and materials.

Kickstarter helping us to pursue our vision!

We've run an e-commerce site in the past and we know how much people's expectations matter.

Cheers,

Marcus