[notyourav]

In USA people can make these calls with much autonomy. In Korea, leaving before your boss is hard to do. In Germany working hours are hard capped and that’s absolutely normal to stop working when your weekly allowance is over.

Some things make sense only because that’s your cultural normal.

[k0k0r0]

Yeah, Germany... For the current project I have so much overtime, needed to stop writting down my working hours officially and only record them off-the-record. This is with a mutual silent agreement with my employer to afterwards simply not show up for some time as soon as the project is done. Because... Laws. We are afraid to even talk about it.

But to be fair, my employer wouldn't mind to let the project fail (It may very well fail anyway, btw). I am doing it voluntarily. He's not at fault at all, except for maybe allowing me to do it. I just love working on the project and try to get it done somehow, against all odds. Nevertheless, German laws now make something shady out of it.

On the other hand, this is not the first time I am doing so utterly stupid and partly self-distructive shit at work. But for sure it is the last time. I am never ever doing this amount of overtime again in my life. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind occasional overtime. But that's simply to much for too long now. I will barely go to work for several months in a row just to get rid of all that overtime, to give you an impression. (I know there is professions where people literally die, if people stop working similar hours. I am not really forced to do that so I am not complaining.)

I am glad my significant other is fine with it, since I barely caried any other responsibilities I should have... for a long time now.

Edit: I am not sure if there is actually special laws in Germany to avoid mutually agreed overtime. But there is for sure some rules where I work. Our company has a kind of special situation and strange laws surprisingly apply to us. Also it important to mention that if low performance and mistakes because of overworked employees happen nothing terrible will happen. You wouldn't want to have your medical devise be programmed by some sleep deprived idiot, but that is not the situation our company is in. If projects fail, nothing of importance is at risk. Many projects are of high risk and failing simply belongs to the business.

[larksimian]

I don't really see this as a downside to the German legislation. If anything it's ... good? It gives the employee a ton of control over whether they do overtime or not. Yes, it's a bit weird that it's technically illegal... but if neither side complains then it's fine?

The power imbalance is so high that normally any scenario where you can 'agree' to work overtime usually leads to employees always having to technically consent or face termination.

It's not perfect but I don't know that there is a better solution given the power imbalance and the game theory of these situations.

[StefanWestfal]

Did you consider that you might not have the right contract for this type of situation? There a lot of jobs (hospitals, consultancy, ...) that do not fit the standard work agreement (08:00-17:00, 1h lunch, 40h/week). The law is strict here for the case that it turns out that your agreement was in fact not mutual and your employer expects you to work normal after your overtime phase without rewarding you for it. The german law is convoluted and can be inflexible but more often then not there are solutions. I am also not sure why you would be afraid talking about it?

[namibj]

There is up to criminal liability (jail) for an employer who knowingly lets workers exceed the allowed time in a way that risks the health of the worker.

[QuarterReptile]

>In USA people can make these calls with much autonomy.

Sort of, but only if you're salaried. The world of working extra hours as a blue-collar employee pretty much got demolished by overtime laws. If you do really low-value work, I imagine you even have some pressure to stay below ACA thresholds.

[genocidicbunny]

> In USA people can make these calls with much autonomy.

Not really. The same dynamics play out in the US quite often. Not uncommon to be seen as slacking off if you consistently leave earlier than the boss, even if all your work is done.