[phphphphp]

Passing the LSAT with no time limit and a copy of the training material in front of you is not an achievement. Anybody here could have written code to pass the LSAT. Standardised tests are only hard to solve with technology if you add a bunch of constraints! Standardised tests are not a test of intelligence, they’re a test of information retention — something that technology has been able to out perform humans on for decades. LLMs are a bridge between human-like behaviour and long established technology.

[chairhairair]

You honestly believe you could hand write code to pass an arbitrary LSAT-level exam?

[phphphphp]

You’ve added a technical constraint. I didn’t say arbitrary. Standardised tests are standard. The point is that a simple lookup is all you need. There’s lots of interesting aspects to LLMs but their ability to pass standardised tests means nothing for standardised tests.

[chairhairair]

You think that it’s being fed questions that it has a lookup table for? Have you used these models? They can answer arbitrary new questions. This newest model was tested against tests it hasn’t seen before. You understand that that isn’t a lookup problem, right?

[phphphphp]

The comment I replied to suggested that the author was fearful of what LLMs meant for the future because they can pass standardised tests. The point I’m making is that standardised tests are literally standardised for a reason: to test information retention in a standard way, they do not test intelligence.

Information retention and retrieval is a long solved problem in technology, you could pass a standardised test using technology in dozens of different ways, from a lookup table to Google searches.

The fact that LLMs can complete a standardised test is interesting because it’s a demonstration of what they can do but it has not one iota of impact on standardised testing! Standardised tests have been “broken” for decades, the tests and answers are often kept under lock and key because simply having access to the test in advance can make it trivial to pass. A standardised test is literally an arbitrary list of questions.

You’re arguing a completely different point.

[chairhairair]

I have no idea what you are talking about now. You claimed to be able to write a program that can pass the LSAT. Now it sounds like you think the LSAT is a meaningless test because it... has answers?

I suspect that your own mind is attempting to do a lookup on a table entry that doesn't exist.

[phphphphp]

The original comment I replied to is scared for the future because GPT-4 passed the LSAT and other standardised tests — they described it as “terrifying”. The point I am making is that standardised tests are an invention to measure how people learn through our best attempt at a metric: information retention. You cannot measure technology in the same way because it’s an area where technology has been beating humans for decades — a spreadsheet will perform better than a human on information retention. If you want to beat the LSAT with technology you can use any number of solutions, an LLM is not required. I could score 100% on the LSAT today if I was allowed to use my computer.

What’s interesting about LLMs is their ability to do things that aren’t standardised. The ability for an LLM to pass the LSAT is orders of magnitude less interesting than its ability to respond to new and novel questions, or appear to engage in logical reasoning.

If you set aside the arbitrary meaning we’ve ascribed to “passing the LSAT” then all the LSAT is, is a list of questions… that are some of the most practiced and most answered in the world. More people have written and read about the LSAT than most other subjects, because there’s an entire industry dedicated to producing the perfect answers. It’s like celebrating Google’s ability to provide a result for “movies” — completely meaningless in 2023.

Standardised tests are the most uninteresting and uninspiring aspect of LLMs.

Anyway good joke ha ha ha I’m stupid ha ha ha. At least you’re not at risk of an LLM ever being able to author such a clever joke :)

[tannhauser23]

You don't know how the LSAT works, do you? It's not a memorization test. It has sections that test reading comprehension and logical thinking.

[phphphphp]

If a person with zero legal training was to sit down in front of the LSAT, with all of the prep material and no time limit, are you saying that they wouldn’t pass?

[scotty79]

Why don't you show your program then that does 90% on LSAT?

[phphphphp]

Send me the answer key and I’ll write you the necessary =VLOOKUP().

[speedgoose]

Your program has to figure it out.

[awestroke]

Considering your username, I'm not surprised that you have completely misunderstood what an LLM is. There is no material or data stored in the model, just weights in a network

[phphphphp]

I know what an LLM is. My point is that “doesn’t have the data in memory” is a completely meaningless and arbitrary constraint when considering the ability to use technology to pass a standardised test. If you can explain why weights in a network is a unique threat to standardised tests, compared to, say, a spreadsheet, please share.

[Auracle]

It's not that standardized tests are under threat. It's that those weights in a network are significantly more similar to how our brains work than a spreadsheet and similarly flexible.

[kurisufag]

weights are data relationships made totally quantitative. imagine claiming the human brain doesn't hold data simply because it's not in readable bit form.