[ahnick]

Just because you host on AWS doesn't mean you get 0 downtime. AWS regions do go down occasionally. Compare that to a hundred thousand node globally distributed network -> https://dashboard.chia.net/d/em15uQ47k/peer-info?orgId=1

> Oh, the real hard problems are creating the standardised representation of a property deed and getting everyone to use it. Something not at all addressed by use of blockchain!

And Oracle databases addressed this? Standardizing property deeds is more of an application level concern not core blockchain infra.

>Cryptographically prove ownership of a property literally no one is asking for this except the sellers of cryptographic proof.

A good UI/UX would make this a push button capability from a wallet. No need for the general public to understand the technology powering push button verification. :)

[automatic6131]

>Standardizing property deeds is more of an application level concern not core blockchain infra.

You claimed it as a benefit! There's no reason that NFTs for property deeds would: Be standardised, or be on the same chain. That's more an application level concern, so please take that point back.

>Just because you host on AWS doesn't mean you get 0 downtime.

You get as near to 0 downtime as anyone needs for transacting property.

Also, still no one is asking for cryptographic proof of property ownership, even if you make it a single button push. No one needs it now, what does it add? Why is what we have now in need of cryptographic verification? Crypto boosters want it because they're selling it, directly or indirectly. You have not answered this question.

[ahnick]

> You claimed it as a benefit! There's no reason that NFTs for property deeds would: Be standardised, or be on the same chain. That's more an application level concern, so please take that point back.

There's different standard levels right? I'm talking about when you build a property deed NFT you'd have to adhere to the on-chain standard for how NFTs are created on that particular blockchain. Then once those NFTs existed other people could integrate them. If you want the property deeds to have a set of standard specifications of how they deal with particular situations that might arise through inheritance, multiple parties, lost keys, etc. then that would be an application level specification.

> Also, still no one is asking for cryptographic proof of property ownership, even if you make it a single button push. No one needs it now, what does it add? Why is what we have now in need of cryptographic verification? Crypto boosters want it because they're selling it, directly or indirectly. You have not answered this question.

I'm asking for it and I'm sure others would like to have it to. :) Having cryptographic verification provides an ability to quickly prove ownership from an application and then that verification could unlock certain home owner benefits (e.g. HELOCs)

[automatic6131]

So what you want is faster access to HELOCs, and why does an NFT allow that? How does cryptography proof that you own it? Because you know a private key attached to a wallet address with the NFT in it? Okay, and how does that NFT relate to actually owning something? What if you get hacked, does the hacker now own it? And if the hacker takes out the line of credit, fail to pay, does the defi protocol they borrowed from now own your house?

Why would you want to make house deeds easy to hack?

>There's different standard levels right? I'm talking about when you build a property deed NFT you'd have to adhere to the on-chain standard for how NFTs are created on that particular blockchain.

Okay, why bother with that particular blockchain standard then, and not the hypothetical FOSS software for hosting a property deed database? Because then you have the same benefits, but also don't need the blockchain?

[ahnick]

> So what you want is faster access to HELOCs, and why does an NFT allow that?

It helps facilitate more automated approval b/c if you were to complete an application with your wallet then the system could check for the presence of the NFT to indicate ownership.

> How does cryptography proof that you own it?

The presence of the NFT in your wallet.

> Because you know a private key attached to a wallet address with the NFT in it?

Yes

> Okay, and how does that NFT relate to actually owning something?

If the government decides to use a blockchain as its system of record for property deeds, then the NFTs on that blockchain would be just as legitimate as paper property deeds. The NFTs hold the hash of any off-chain data whose validity could be verified.

> What if you get hacked, does the hacker now own it?

Perhaps in a poor implementation. I would expect clawbacks to be implemented for property deed NFTs.

> And if the hacker takes out the line of credit, fail to pay, does the defi protocol they borrowed from now own your house?

Hopefully that user is using a hardware wallet and again clawbacks are implemented, so that doesn't happen. If it did, then you'd probably seek resolution through the courts as needed.

> Why would you want to make house deeds easy to hack?

It's very hard to steal NFTs from a hardware wallet with clawback support. Good luck!

> Okay, why bother with that particular blockchain standard then, and not the hypothetical FOSS software for hosting a property deed database? Because then you have the same benefits, but also don't need the blockchain?

Because a FOSS property deed database could be censored and cannot be independently verified outside of the governing body easily. I would expect the uptime to be slower. It would also become a central point of failure for all property deeds and would need to protect against DDoS attacks.

[automatic6131]

>with clawback support

Does this exist? What would it look like? Can you force a wallet to release an NFT? Or is it just governmental - centralized! - approved reminting of an NFT?

Also your security model is "I hope users use a hardware wallet" - not a great track record of this! Even among professional cryptocurrency developers!

>Because a FOSS property deed database could be censored and cannot be independently verified outside of the governing body easily. I would expect the uptime to be slower. It would also become a central point of failure for all property deeds This is the state of play today and it's... fine? Like I know many, many, many people buying houses and the hard part is not the record keeping of the deeds. That wouldn't even make a top 10 problem. And I know several people who've remortgaged or taken out credit against their house. They managed! Generally, taking out a big loan doesn't need to be fast - you don't do it that often.

Not exactly crying out for this solution, is it?

So, in summary, this use case isn't a high priority for nearly anyone (HELOCs already exist and can be accessed, and in any case, who needs them to be much faster? how often do they take out credit against their house?) and requires either centralized authority OR a future improvement to a blockchain (clawback!) and still requires the courts to looks at analog paper deeds (otherwise, how could seek resolution through the courts) in any case.