[raspberry1337]

I didn't write it out, but our managers have no idea of the code at all. They have never been programmers. Hence the programmers sit around all day, like posting on HN, and not much gets done at all. But hey they are surely really passionate about managing.

[Insanity]

Depends on the location. I'm an Engineering Manager at $FAANG (MANGA?) and I moved into management after senior engineering roles. At the same time, I'm still programming a lot in my "free time". Your experience doesn't apply everywhere.

As for motivation (I know no one asked): I genuinely enjoy the human aspect of the job and thinking further out into the future with product and engineering leaders. Plus I learned that I really enjoy programming when it's a hobby without the corporate overhead, and that it's less fun (to me) in a company.

Not to discredit your experience - but it's not a universal truth.

[_djo_]

At Meta and pretty much all other tech companies Engineering Managers have to have been decent programmers first, so I'm not sure what you're describing applies there.

Cases where managers are appointed to oversee dev teams without having any engineering experience at all are more common in non-tech companies. Those situations can still work, but rarely work well.

[davidivadavid]

But if the managers were programmers, suddenly everyone would magically want to work instead of fucking around on HN.

[raspberry1337]

It's not about will, but the managers capability to oversee what is going on. Since they dont know anything about programming, they cant even really know if someone is slacking, or working really hard.

That is, their capability to manage.

[davidivadavid]

Huh? Of course they can. Is the person shipping what they're supposed to be shipping?

[raspberry1337]

Which is a discussion of what they are supposed to be shipping. Usually a description of a program, in text. A discussion that very often ends in court over disagreements. Have you ever worked on a commercial software?

[andsoitis]

Forgive me for asking, but why would you work at a place like that? Aren't you bored doing nothing?

[raspberry1337]

It's my first gig, so my options are limited. Things might still shake up when people start asking where all the money is going. But I've also come to realize that my situation is not unique, there's a lot of non-work going on in modern tech.

[gardenhedge]

Do you use scrum? How are people's capacities not being filled?

[raspberry1337]

We do, they named the least productive yet most experienced gentleman to "teach lead" to lead the scrums because they started getting a notion that not much was getting done. This is the guy who love writing documentation (One A4 per week of 40h hour, about). The end result was nothing changed: "I am working on X", "OK, good good" and nothing really gets done. Then the customer started changing the demands 9 months into the project which justified the inproductivity even more. It's all around just a shit show.