[gambiting]

>>There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products

Yeah I absolutely don't agree. I don't believe it can be done at scale - but it can be done. Watch a channel like Harry's Farm on youtube - guy basically has cattle on moors where nothing else could possibly grow - they just stay there all year, eat grass, then one day they get slaughtered. There is nothing about farming them this way that's unsustainable.

>>The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy.

I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself friend.

We should be fighting against factory farming with all our might, and especially the US is a sad place when it comes to animal rights. But going out and saying it can't be done sustainably is a lie peddled by people who either literally can't imagine how it can be done, or who don't want to see it. I believe meat can be sustainably produced, but it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day because it's so cheap.

[myshpa]

> I don't believe it can be done at scale

Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total.

> but it can be done

We may also find farms where there are no animal inputs used. It can be done.

> it should be reflected in its cost - people shouldn't be eating meat 3x times a day

Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot.

>> The only sane and ethical response to this devastation is to completely reject the economic exploitation of animals - to adopt a fully vegan philosophy

> I think you might be getting too much of that "greenwashed" propaganda yourself

If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eati...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism

[gambiting]

>>Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total.

That sounds very different to "There is no such thing as sustainable animal agriculture - it is a lie used to greenwash products"

>>Removing all subsidies for dairy, meat & fishing would help a lot.

I agree.

>>If you don't see the logic in it, then you just haven't found the power to really acknowledge all the problems associated with it.

I absolutely do see the logic in it, but someone saying that the only way to solve this is by going vegan is no different than someone saying that the only way to solve global warming is to stop driving cars. Would that solve the problem? Of course it would. Are the chances of that happening greater than 0? No, they aren't. This isn't personal criticism of course - if you feel that going vegan is consistent with your logical and moral stance, please go ahead. But I don't think we should even pretend that veganism is the solution to this problem on a global scale, because I don't believe you would get anywhere near the required number of people on board with it. The steps that I think are far more realistic are - more sustainable animal husbandry, sharp rise in cost of meat to reflect its true cost(which will naturally reduce the amount of meat consumed), and yes, like you said - removal of artificial subsidies to those industries.

[myshpa]

> the only way to solve global warming is to stop driving cars. Would that solve the problem? Of course it would

No it would not. We have to do many things to solve it, not just one thing or another.

And nobody argues that we should stop eating ... that would equal stopping driving. But as we can drive electric instead, we can also eat something else than animals.

We already get majority of calories out of plants ... animals supply only 18% of calories and 37% proteins (https://ourworldindata.org/land-use).

>> Sustainable animal husbandry represents less than 5% of the total.

Mea culpa. That max 5% is non-industrial farming. How big part of it is sustainable i do not know.