[alanbernstein]

Well, I haven't looked into this one deeply yet, so I'm not sure what the differences are exactly. But there are many existing, broadly similar, projects. I see this as a solution to "I want to make an interactive website, and I don't want to touch the JS ecosystem at all and/or I really prefer python-specific libraries". This is my position exactly, so I sort of keep track of what's available. From that perspective, this is in the same space as: web2py, pyjs, streamlit, brython, pyodide, pywebio, gleam. I'm sure there are others.

[cutler]

This is a futile pursuit simply because you are creating a layer of abstraction over JS using another dynamic language so there's no real gain other than syntactic sugar.

[alanbernstein]

Would you say the same thing about web assembly and emscripten? At least one of the above is based on those.

Using scientific and numeric packages from the python ecosystem is more than syntactic sugar, IMO. It seems like the JS world mostly ignores that stuff.

I have yet to try a real project with any of those python web tools. I know just enough HTML, vanilla JS and DOM API to cobble together ugly sites when I need to, so that's what I do. But I am optimistic that a better alternative will emerge eventually.

[jiggywiggy]

These tools are a waste of time. They take longer to learn then basic js and then in 3 years support is dropped you might have well learned a bit more js.

It's a bit big but just run nextjs, it solves almost everything for you. Even deployment is one click away. Would take 5 mins to get started. And a few hours to understand for a seasoned dev.

[alanbernstein]

I'm not familiar with nextjs, will try it out.

I honestly want to understand this viewpoint, so I can make informed decisions when looking at these tools. So let me ask...

I agree that some of these older python things are probably not worth using. But I'm a bit confused that you're entirely dismissing web assembly. I think it's well understood that using JavaScript as the foundation of front end software was a complete historical accident. It's a huge amount of inertia to compete with, but that doesn't mean it's insurmountable.

My understanding is that wasm is a major industry initiative, and it isn't going away. Emscripten seems to be nearly as stable. Now, maybe two or three non-js languages will emerge as the core of wasm-based development, and maybe python won't be in that small group. I'd rather learn, say, rust than continue writing JavaScript.

Where do you disagree? You think wasm will be shut down completely in a year? You think none of these languages will take off in terms of web-specific tooling? Something else?

[jiggywiggy]

Whether it was a mistake or not. It's taken over. And many people have worked hard to make it a modern language the last 20 years.

I've seen many attempts to take over js, thusfar they all failed. At the same time JS got more and more powerful.

Js is so integrated in every corporate it will not go away any time soon.

JS solves so many issues know and the css layout is much more mature than then any under native system (native apps, flash etc are much worse at responsive layouts)

Wasp sounds fun, it's very early stage and doesnt sound like it has anything to do with webpages but runs a binary in a browser sandbox. Kind of like flash without a plugin. Can have a lot of cool features, mainly games etc. But sounds like an addition not a replacement. But who knows!

[nodemaker]

Haha yeah its amazing how the lengths people will go to not learn something simple but new!

[alanbernstein]

I have been using JavaScript for decades, and I have never liked using it. I want to enjoy making interactive browser-based apps. Sorry that I don't buy into the cult of infinitely complex front end build tooling.

[mattgreenrocks]

I am consciously opting out of that ecosystem because it isn't for me.

[mattgreenrocks]

The frontend gets compiled to JS, not unlike how TS gets compiled to JS.

[nuclearnice1]

Useful list. Dash & bokeh as two more in the space

https://github.com/plotly/dash https://docs.bokeh.org/en/latest/

[shrimpx]

Bokeh, Dash, Gradio, Pglet, Idom, Anvil

[ovi256]

I think all LiveView frameworks should be part of this.

Here are two Python ones I've tried:

https://www.django-unicorn.com/ https://github.com/edelvalle/reactor