[astrange]

We have chip-and-nothing, or contactless, which is better than Chip-and-PIN. (Note Apple Pay and similar are basically chip-and-PIN because it's authenticated by the phone passcode.)

> And who still uses cheques these days?!

US uses them for business-to-customer payments, especially unsolicited ones, because we don't want to give random businesses we don't know our bank account numbers.

[monodeldiablo]

Those numbers at the bottom of a cheque? Yeah, they include your account number.

There's no inherent information risk to giving out an account number that justifies an outdated paper-based system. Especially when one considers the accompanying fraud risk thereof.

The instant I moved to Europe, I realized just how far behind consumer banking is in the US. It's pitiful.

[catiopatio]

> Those numbers at the bottom of a cheque? Yeah, they include your account number.

Yes, as well as the routing number.

> There's no inherent information risk to giving out an account number …

Of _course_ there is. In the US, the account + routing number is sufficient to perform a ACH transfer, write checks against that account, etc.

The risk is enormous.

> Especially when one considers the accompanying fraud risk thereof.

I’m assuming you misunderstood the risk when you wrote the above. It is, in fact, extremely high.

[tome]

> It is, in fact, extremely high.

Not in Europe it's not, which is monodeldiablo's point: there's no inherent risk to giving out your account number. It's only the primitive US system which makes it a risk.

[LadyCailin]

>> Those numbers at the bottom of a cheque? Yeah, they include your account number. > Yes, as well as the routing number. >> There's no inherent information risk to giving out an account number … >Of _course_ there is. In the US, the account + routing number is sufficient to perform a ACH transfer, write checks against that account, etc. The risk is enormous.

So… how does writing a check remove this risk then? That was the original point, that writing a check is safer than giving out your account number.

[astrange]

No, when someone sends you a check it has their account number on it, not yours…

[orwin]

You can't get your refund directly on your credit card? It's standard for at least clothes and tools/furniture in my country.

[astrange]

We can, but sometimes you get payments in the mail from businesses you only have an occasional relationship with.

You can pay people instantly by refunding their debit cards - that's how Uber drivers can get paid - but it's not free, which is why most transfers don't go that way.