[gambiting]

If you can't fit all of that in four and a half thousand dollars then I don't know what to tell you. I'll repeat myself - someone who has 4.5k left after paying rent is not struggling to make ends meet by any definition of the word, in Seattle or elsewhere.

[Forgeties79]

$4500/mo for everything after the roof over your head is not enough.

Living alone? Probably, assuming you have no major debt and are in great health/have no emergencies.

2 of you? Maybe. Definitely not putting anything away for later that’s for sure. Better not have any emergencies.

Kids? No way.

$4500/mo after paying for your home basically leaves little room for error or, frankly, joy in your life. Can't take trips, can't have pets, can't donate to causes, can't go out to eat much or anywhere nice, etc. We aren't supposed to just work/eat/sleep, we need something to look forward to, we need to be able to weather financial emergencies, and we need to be able to save for later.

[gambiting]

>>$4500/mo after paying for your home basically leaves little room for error or, frankly, joy in your life. Can't take trips, can't have pets, can't donate to causes, can't go out to eat much or anywhere nice, etc

None of this is "struggling to make ends meet". I've seen this before though - people make good money, have a place to live, make payments for a nice car, have enough to put food on the table, to pay for their energy bills, to send their kids to school/childcare, and yet they will say they are barely hanging on because they can't save a lot every year or go on holidays.

Like, I really sympathise, but that's not barely making ends meet. 4.5k after rent is enough to live on almost anywhere in the world.

[Forgeties79]

We are talking about the United States. Not “anywhere in the world.” I find those arguments very frustrating because I don’t really feel like I should have to say that. We are not talking about somewhere where $10 can last you a week.

[pertymcpert]

Ummm childcare is like 2k a month.

[sunnynuts]

I live in the Seattle area, please direct me to where I can find child care for 2k a month without a 1 year+ waiting list... please?!?

[pertymcpert]

I was trying to average it out across the low COL areas :).

But here in the Bay Area, for 2Y+ you can find daycares for that amount. Also home day cares are also an option and they tend to be between 1.5-2k a month.

When you're looking for <2Y care though? That fucking sucks, because of the (understandable) ratio laws, prices are high 2ks to 3k here.

[gambiting]

Ok, that leaves another 2.5k to use. Once again, that's not struggling to make ends meet.

[AstralStorm]

That's assuming you do not want to save anything, or a medical emergency does not wipe you out. Or a car crash. Or any other utterly forseeable common event.

This is called precariousness, not comfort.

[gambiting]

Again, nothing to do with struggling to make ends meet. By going further with your argument you aren't fully comfortable until you can cover any possible event that might happen, since a dire enough event will exhaust any possible amount of savings you could have unless you're a billionaire. Medical emergencies and car crashes are covered by insurance for nearly everyone, if you make that much money I would think you have appropriate policies in place.

[pertymcpert]

Ah I just realized you're in the UK. I'm also from the UK but live in California.

Now it all makes sense! I agree that 4.5k after tax is fine to live on in the UK. Here in the US where a carton of basic eggs cost $6+, a box of standard brand milk costs $4/5, that $2.5k is going to disappear pretty fucking quickly.

I was astounded at how expensive it was here. Even in London, you could buy Warburtons for £1.30 or so back when I moved a few years ago. 1L of Cravendale (I liked the good stuff) was still £1 IIRC. Now it's like £1.30? Still, way cheaper.

[pertymcpert]

I don't think you have kids (especially infants/young ones) because in a high cost of living area, 2.5k a month is HARD. You can do that in Europe, not in the US.

Those situations also happen, they're not black swan events. My current medical plan for my family has a deductible of $3k. Every year we end up hitting that number. That's excluding the actual premiums which are deducted from your pay. Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about?