[scarface74]

Would you say the same thing coming straight out of college with $0 in your bank account, student loan debt and no experience?

As I said in another reply, I could afford to ignore BigTech recruiters at 45 making about as much as a returning intern makes where I work now. I already had the big house in the burbs, retirement savings, a family and a son graduating from high school.

I would never tell a new college grad to ignore the same recruiters I did.

I could and can take jobs I enjoy, actively run away from promotions, etc.

[YZF]

It's cultural and personal. I started my career getting paid less but doing fun stuff. I paid my way through university with no debt. I only started to think about money after having kids. i.e. I couldn't care less about myself, and I didn't need a lot of money either, but I did care about my family.

I had a great time, and learnt the most, at smaller places and lower paying jobs. Then I also had a great time at some better paying startups. I probably enjoyed my "big tech" better paying jobs the least. All that said, you're generally so much above the average as a software developer that you can't even imagine what most people are struggling with.

YMMV

[scarface74]

You saw the part about my spending my entire career from 1996-2020 doing your bog standard enterprise dev?

In 1996, I graduated from an unknown state college in South Georgia and I made $11/hour as a computer operator working on DEC VAX and Stratus VOS mainframes.

Because of…poor career choices …I didn’t hit six figures until I was 40. Even now I make about what a software engineer II makes at my same BigTech company at 49 in cloud consulting.

As I say, please play the worlds smallest fiddle for me.

Last year, my wife and I got rid of everything we owned that wouldn’t fit in 3 suitcases - including our cars - and bought a vacation/investment property in a resort area in Florida. We stay here half the year from October - mid March and we fly around the US the other half of the year “digital nomadding”. My wife in the meantime is retired at 47 and she is involved with her passion in the fitness/wellness industry and meets up with people everywhere we go and flies to conferences from wherever we are staying in a given week. I also fly for work a few times a week.

We take Uber everywhere.

This is what I meant by I can make different life choices at 49 than I would recommend a college grad making. I can be okay barely making L5 compensation.

Our fixed expenses are really low.

[YZF]

By cultural I meant American. Just to be clear I am not American.

I'm not quite sure what your point is. You seem to be supporting what I'm saying which is you can get by perfectly well with various choices. You made choices (poor or not) to not go after the biggest paying jobs and you're doing great. Why does a new grad today have to go work for Google?

In the US there are lots of really good paying software jobs that aren't with the biggest tech companies. I've worked remotely for a small US startup many years ago and got paid really well. The current market is tight but over the last decade if you had a pulse and could code you could get pretty decent job.

[scarface74]

I can make different choices at 49, after having a 25 year career, a house that doubled in value in four years that I could leverage, no family responsibilities, parents that have been retired for 20 years who still have four sources of income (2 pensions and social security) that are healthy and independent at 80 that don’t need me (for now).

I also had no college debt (scholarships and going to a cheap school) and I was able to get into BigTech by being old, with industry experience that allowed me to bypass the leetcode grind. But only by pivoting into consulting.

These are life choices I could make that a new college grad couldn’t. Also when I graduated, $BigTech wasn’t a thing. Apple was barely hanging on for dear life and MS wasn’t paying more than your average company adjusted for cost of living.

[PuppyTailWags]

If you're a parent, you probably are long enough out of college that you don't know what most new juniors are getting out of fresh from college. There's very few to no ways to pay your way through university with no debt, these days. Cheap in-state tuition & fees is over 5,000 per semester, not including books, equipment, travel, housing, food, healthcare...

When I was still in college, most kids were graduating with debt. Tuition and fees have only gone up since I left. Lots of people I knew who dropped out to try and save for college ended up in dead-end despair jobs.

[YZF]

Well, for one thing not everyone is in the USA. I was not. My older daughter graduated from university. So I do know. But also not in the USA.

Does nobody in the US live with their parents while going to university?

It's not uncommon where I live for parents to save to pay for their children's education. Believe it or not, the government even gives you money if you do that.

EDIT: That said, the US has plenty of good paying software jobs. You can pay back your loans even if you don't work for Google. I'm sure this isn't easy for everyone (especially these days).

[Jensson]

> Does nobody in the US live with their parents while going to university?

The tuition fees are probably a bigger expense than your living expenses if you go to college in USA.

[sgerenser]

Here in North Carolina, the flagship state universities are still only about $10k/year or less for tuition. If the student lives at home with their parents, it really wouldn’t be difficult to pay most of their way through school. College is expensive in general but it doesn’t have to be as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

[PuppyTailWags]

> If the student lives at home with their parents, it really wouldn’t be difficult to pay most of their way through school.

Please tell me how a full-time student can fairly easily earn 10 grand a year (plus books, clothing, phone bill, entertainment, laptop, etc)?

[krageon]

If you paid your way through uni with no debt you most likely didn't graduate recently, which makes your advice to current students (or ones that have recently graduated) not very well aligned with reality.

[pjmlp]

At least in a big part of the world, student loan isn't part of the problem when looking for a job straight out of university.

[mountainriver]

100% if you are in a hole, get out of the hole first