[analyst74]

History may not repeat, but it rhymes. Great empires all eventually fall because its citizens started to see each other as enemies more than allies.

That being said, the narrative is also written by victors in the eyes of the ruling class. So take them with a grain of salt. For example, America was only a symbol of freedom for those fled Europe, not much for those who were here before or shipped from Africa.

[Swizec]

> written by victors in the eyes of the ruling class

One interesting artefact of growing up in the European … what word do you use for a nation ruled by a foreign upper-class from 800 AD to 1991 (Slovenia)? … is that you get a strongly ingrained cultural instinct that ”The government or ruling class is not for you, they are for themselves”. Until very recently, and some would argue even now, our rulers never had our best interests at heart.

For most of our history we were peasants to be exploited. Our great history lessons aren’t about conquest, they are about peasant revolts seeking basic human rights. We weren’t even allowed school in our native language until the 1800’s.

And you learn that governments change, the name of your province and the country it belongs to comes and goes, but the people stay.

edit: Since 1800 my city has been part of - Austrian Empire, Illyrian Provinces (Napoleon), Austro-Hungary, State of Slovenes Croats and Serbs, Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes, Yugoslavia 1, Italy, Germany, Yugoslavia 2, Slovenia. That’s 10 countries in 223 years.

[rajin444]

> Great empires all eventually fall because its citizens started to see each other as enemies more than allies.

This has proved true countless times along with the age of an empire spanning roughly 250 years. Other signs also include glorification of entertainers (lack of heroes who actually improve the culture), political infighting, and desecration of the empires history/heroes.

> For example, America was only a symbol of freedom for those fled Europe, not much for those who were here before or shipped from Africa.

America’s 250th birthday is fast approaching.

[nine_k]

Empires stay empires in the original sense only when there is a core where people are privileged, and colonies where people are exploited and lack rights. Roman Empire stayed like that for a long time (even Latin rights were introduced relatively late), Russian Empire had a lot of that, and British Empire was practically an epitome of that.

I don't see how the modern US is comparable: equality is formally enshrined in the Constitution, and whatever inequality exists is delineated more by ethnic / cultural lines than by geography of birth or living, driven by private xenophobia, not institutions.

[andrepd]

The USA have extreme amounts of influence all over the globe. They have performed countless invasions and over 100 regime-changes in the past century.

The power relations in global capitalism between the US and its tributaries is not dissimilar to the relations between e.g. Rome and its provinces. Hence calling America an empire.

[analyst74]

US has done much better than previous empires.

Despite starting off with genocide of natives and slavery, it slowly improved over time in terms of addressing internal strife, which is probably a major contributor to its longevity as a global power.

[inglor_cz]

For a big power, the US is relatively young. As a country, it has been around for 250 years, but as a world power, mere 100. That is on the young side when compared to other historic empires.

The Roman empire in the 1st century AD looked remarkably stable and rich. You wouldn't be able to prophesize the crisis of the 3rd century from the status quo in Hadrian's times.

[nine_k]

Which post-medieval states had a much longer tenure as a comparable world power? Spain kept for about two centuries, and Britain maybe for somehow more. Can't readily tell about China, but it did dominate its vicinity both culturally, economically, and militarily for quite some time, before a long and miserable decline that lasted until late 20th century.

[inglor_cz]

France, the UK, Spain, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, I would say. All clocked at 250+.

Of course, we may split a lot of hairs discussing what "comparable" means. Certainly all of those were great powers, controlling distant shores and distant nations for long generations.

[foobarian]

> for those fled Europe

And happened to be male, and own land

[inglor_cz]

Not necessarily, some of my distant relatives went to the US to work in mines and/or be domestic servants (M/F), which wasn't exactly high prestige and yet they considered the US to be freer and more friendly towards random people than their country of origin (back then, Austria-Hungary).

You may underestimate the seriousness of the remaining vestiges of feudalism in pre-WWI Europe, including, say, rampant anti-Semitism in the Russian empire. It was probably better to be a schnorer in New York than a Jewish doctor in Odessa (with its tradition of deadly pogroms).

[geenew]

Are you sure that people from Europe who don't fall into that group also didn't see America as a symbol of freedom relative to what they knew at home? It's possible, but it also seems possible, even likely, that the opposite would be true, given the degree of entrenched social stratification in post-medieval Europe.