[freewizard]

Is it possible for China to become democratic?

…

Debater B I agree that civil society is growing in China, but the government's continued crackdown on dissent and censorship of the media and internet represent significant obstacles to democratization. Without free expression, democracy cannot flourish.

Debater A I agree that free expression is crucial for democracy, but we must also acknowledge the steps China has taken towards a more open society. For instance, China has recently abolished term limits for its president, potentially allowing for greater continuity and stability in its leadership. It's important to recognize progress and continue to encourage positive developments towards democratization.

——

It seems either China govt propaganda dominated the training material of chatgpt, or the logic chain is oversimplified (abolishing term limit = continuity, progress + continuity = good), or both.

[KyeRussell]

Or you’re reading too much into ChatGPT getting confused in a way that it _routinely_ does for me in relation to topics that aren’t as politically charged as this.

[freewizard]

yes, i noticed that too. what I had concern with is, political or not, the lack of boundary between fact and narrative, not that's clear for human either, will create seemingly eloquent nonsense.

[tatrajim]

By this logic, if Xi Jinping can clone himself and maintain permanent rule, then China will surely become democratic.

[RedCondor]

On the contrary. Far from showing any hints of pro-Chinese seeding, this shows to what extent ChatGPT is trained entirely by observing white people talk to each other about China, and doesn't come even close to capturing actual Chinese positions on the issue.

China considers itself democratic. It rejects the Western model of democracy entirely. It doesn't defend itself against the "ideal" set by the United States as "benchmark."

Three examples.

1. Public opinion:

>According to data from polling firm Dalia Research cited by Bloomberg News, 84% of Chinese believe “Democracy is important” and 73% agree with the statement “My country is democratic.” For comparison, here are some other countries and their equivalent scores: Brazil (83/51), Japan (60/46), U.S. (73/49), Germany (85/67).

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-...

2. Xi Jinping:

>Democracy is not an ornament to be put on display, but an instrument for addressing the issues that concern the people. Whether a country is democratic or not depends on whether its people are truly the masters of the country. It depends on whether the people have the right to vote, and more importantly, the right to participate; what promises they are given during elections, and more importantly, how many of these promises are delivered after elections; what kind of political procedures and rules are set through state systems and laws, and more importantly, whether these systems and laws are truly enforced; and whether the rules and procedures for the exercise of power are democratic, and more importantly, whether the exercise of power is genuinely subject to public oversight and checks. If the people are only engaged with to solicit votes and then are left in the dark, if they must listen to grandiose election slogans but have no voice when the elections are over, or if they are only treated well by candidates during elections and are ignored after, this is not true democracy. In a word, democracy is the right of the people of all countries, not the prerogative of a few nations. Whether a country is democratic should be judged by its people, not by a handful of nosy outsiders. In the international community, whether a country is democratic should be judged by community consensus, not by a few self-appointed judges. There is no uniform or single model of democracy; it comes in many forms. Assessing the world’s myriad political systems against a single yardstick and examining diverse political advancement in monochrome is, itself, inherently undemocratic.

3. Deng Xiaoping:

>The democracy in capitalist societies is bourgeois democracy — in fact, it is the democracy of monopoly capitalists. It is no more than a system of multi-party elections, separation of judicial, executive, and legislative powers, and a bicameral legislature. Ours is the system of people’s congresses and people’s democracy under the leadership of the Communist Party; we cannot adopt the practice of the West. The greatest advantage of the socialist system is that when the central leadership makes a decision, it is promptly implemented without interference from any other quarters.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/198...

[ano88888]

As someone who speak chinese and use weibo (china's twitter) daily, i can confidently tell you the above is false. Most chinese people have associated 'democracy' as a very very negative word that will destroy their country (credit to CCP ). When they hear 'democracy', the emotions and thoughts that are brought up is probably similar to you hearing 'communisum' or 'Nazism'. Their mind has been polluted to believe that 'democracy' will only bring chaos and ruins and is a western conspiracy to destroy china