[em-bee]

that's not what i am responding to.

the original message was "i need an iphone" not "i need a phone".

my response specifically addresses the request for something they shouldn't need since they already had a phone (i could not find any specifics about a tracphone, but i guess it is android based)

and since this was likely not clear, by not giving my kids a regular android phone, i meant one with a manufacturer provided android. they will be getting something with a version of android customized for privacy, like /e/ or something similar.

[brudgers]

The messages were, I have a girlfriend and I want an iPhone.

They came out together ten minutes into a two hour drive and five minutes later he was asleep because I said, I will talk about it with mama.

And later that same day while he was doing his soccer things, I did on my Windows Phone. And then we all talked some more over the next few days.

Mostly about the girlfriend. Because it was awesome to see him reach that stage of his life…we were that age once.

The iPhone came eventually after a few weeks. I think it turned out a positive tool for social navigation in his circumstance.

Other kids have other circumstances. But they are not my kid for better or worse. Your kid certainly isn’t.

[em-bee]

ok, that's much less dramatic than i envisioned it. in any case i didn't intend to comment on your specific experience but to an envisioned scenario where the girlfriend is the main or only reason to want an iphone.

and it's wonderful that your son can talk to you about his girlfriend. i could not talk to my parents about that. i hope my kids will be comfortable to talk with me when the time comes.

[brudgers]

Ten years later -- late last year -- he called me about a thing with a girlfriend.

We all start with lots of theories about parenting. We end with experience and memories. Hopefully, the kind that make you miss them (it's hard to wish that your child would miss you). And we all have the option of not parenting like our parents.

The iPhone was a tool for social navigation. It replaced a flip-phone.

We got the flip-phone as a tool for the just-in-case cases. There's a lot of growth between fourth and seventh grade...the girlfriend uhm was an obvious example...anyway, a big part of that growth is peers bove into the center of a child's attention. The parents are still there, but they're not the only thing there anymore.

Just like it was for me. Maybe like it was for you...it is for a lot of people, but not everyone (I wrote that because I took what you wrote at face value).

It's easy to read things into what people write that provide an excuse to express outrage...expressing outrage is often a form of socially acceptable creativity. It's ok to say "I wrote because they wrote something outrageous."

We all need creativity, but telling someone "I write because I like to write" feels unsafe. One thing I learned from HN is to read what people wrote charitably.

But for the record, I don't give a shit whether or not buying my kid an iPhone is ok with you.

[em-bee]

It replaced a flip-phone

ok, that's a lot more reasonable than replacing a recent android phone, ignoring the iphone vs android debate.

in written communication it is a lot easier to take something personal that wasn't meant to be. it is also more difficult to make clear that something isn't personal.

my outrage in this thread is targeted at the idea that an iphone is required for youth to fit in. a point that several people here have accepted and supported. the reason to share this outrage is to gather support against this idea and to get ideas how to deal with it and how to talk to my children about it. it is good to know that there is support, but also interesting to see that this is quite controversial.

i appreciate your measured, insightful and quite personal contributions to this topic.