[lmedinas]

I love Emacs. I did a ton of things with it:

- Organizer - git client - search tool - rough notes - Terminal - file management - Code editor!

Pretty much everything.

But sometime ago I realized I was adding so many customized code lines to my .emacs to reassemble the modern editors that it made me think I was using it wrong. Then I decided to take a break and start using Neovim, which imo borrows some nice stuff from EMacs like the Terminal and the lua interface.

[ParetoOptimal]

> adding so many customized code lines to my .emacs to reassemble the modern editors

I feel like trying to recreate vscode in emacs could be a suboptimal approach to say "add a directory sidebar and lsp-mode, but get used to emacs buffer and tab handling"

[crabbone]

Why would anyone want to recreate VSCode in Emacs? It's like asking a philharmonic orchestra to play Country Roads... Yeah, they probably can do a very good job at it, but they are there to play some more interesting music, wouldn't you think?

> get used to emacs buffer and tab handling

This clearly shows you've never used the program you are so confidently talking about... What tabs?

[ParetoOptimal]

> This clearly shows you've never used the program you are so confidently talking about... What tabs?

lol, quick to go for the jab mister crab.

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ta...

Specifically I use https://github.com/mclear-tools/tabspaces

[crabbone]

What's the connection?

There are plenty of ways of managing multiple buffers, and tabs is... just one of them, and, it's just not good... Complaining about it just means you don't understand how to use the editor you are complaining about. These tabs are for people who come from another editor and think they need tabs. Similar to how you can have scrollbars or panels with buttons to do things in Emacs, but they aren't there to improve editing experience, they are there to help the inexperienced to transfer their experience from other editors onto the new one.

[ParetoOptimal]

There are plenty of ways of managing multiple buffers, and tabs is... just one of them, and, it's just not good... Complaining about it just means you don't understand how to use the editor you are complaining about. These tabs are for people who come from another editor and think they need tabs. Similar to how you can have scrollbars or panels with buttons to do things in Emacs, but they aren't there to improve editing experience, they are there to help the inexperienced to transfer their experience from other editors onto the new one.

> What's the connection? > Complaining about it just means you don't understand how to use the editor you are complaining about.

I must admit, I'm pretty confused here.

I'm not complaining about tabs?

> There are plenty of ways of managing multiple buffers, and tabs is... just one of them, and, it's just not good

What do you use for managing multiple buffers? Do you not care about distinguishing one projects buffers from any other project?

> These tabs are for people who come from another editor and think they need tabs.

The tabs in emacs are different than the ones in vscode. In emacs terms there is only one window containing one buffer you cannot change per tab.

tab == buffer in vscode

> Similar to how you can have scrollbars or panels with buttons to do things in Emacs, but they aren't there to improve editing experience, they are there to help the inexperienced to transfer their experience from other editors onto the new one.

I used to think this, but my mind was changed after seeing many experienced emacs users that do prefer using scrollbars, buttons, or the new context-menu-mode.

emacs is about freedom in a lot of ways including how you use emacs, not some "ur a noob if you use the mouse" type thing.

> they are there to help the inexperienced to transfer their experience from other editors onto the new one.

People vary. For someone disabled, it's possible that in many scenarios using the mouse is faster for them than the keyboard. So the fact they use the mouse doesn't make them inexperienced.

There is utility in these features and they don't purely exist to bridge the gap for new users coming into emacs.

[crabbone]

> What do you use for managing multiple buffers?

Ibuffer

Some people use Helm or Projectile. There's a whole section in the Wiki about it: https://wikemacs.org/wiki/Buffer_management

> The tabs in emacs are different than the ones in vscode.

Just forget tabs exist in Emacs. Like I said, they are for people who are used to have tabs, but serve no purpose if you use Emacs. It's like if you were trying to use Photoshop to run unit tests for some JavaScript code you wrote for Web browser. Yeah, it has a built-in JavaScript interpreter, but really, it's not meant to be used as a JavaScript runtime.

> tab == buffer in vscode

Not sure what you are trying to say... Do you mean a "tab" in VSCode terminology is equivalent to "buffer" in Emacs terminology? -- If so, that's not true. VSCode has a number of fixed windows, which cannot have interchangeable contents. It has a window dedicated to showing text files, it has a window dedicated to interaction with shells, it has a window dedicated to interaction with filesystem etc. While this is really inconvenient and the lack of generic approach is really hurting due to inconsistencies between these windows, that's how they chose to do it.

> I used to think this, but my mind was changed after seeing many experienced emacs users that do prefer using scrollbars

I haven't met a single Emacs user who'd use scrollbars. I probably met about 2-3 dozens. Most wouldn't even know what they look like. Scrollbars aren't well-integrated into the rest of interaction with the program. It's a handicap if you use them. I cannot think about a single reason, a single situation in which scrollbars would be preferable to other methods of navigation. They are less precise, slower and in some cases impossible to implement (eg. infinite buffers).

Freedom and being a noob are orthogonal to each other. I didn't say you should never use scrollbars. I said that if you are a noob, that's what you will likely end up using... I don't say you shouldn't be a noob, I just say that being a noob sucks.

> For someone disabled

And for some who don't have hands, it's even worse... what's your point? There's the reality of text editors: if you have two functioning hands, you are in a very advantageous situation compared to someone who doesn't. Comparing the two doesn't make sense in the same way how it doesn't make sense to let super-heavy-weight boxers compete with light-weight boxers.That's why those categories were created in the first place.