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by franklindholm 5264 days ago
Using the information posted by thomasz it doesn't seem plausible that the average German truck driver would make 5 times what your brother made. Assuming that your brother followed European laws and didn't drive more than the allowed hours a day, and assuming an average work week of 5 days* for both your brother and the average German truck driver, the German truck driver would have made €421,80 in 4 days of work.

There are a few possible explanations to your blatantly wrong assertions here. One could be that you are simply as naive to think that a European truck driver would make €1500 for 4 days of work (if that where so I would be leaving my, in relation to the number you provided, low paying work as an IT consultant in a heart beat, €7500/month drool).

Another more cynic explanation would be that you are trying to spread some poor-me-I'm-from-an-ex-communist-country-I'm-so-poor propaganda, hopefully that isn't so. The flip side to that is that the former Eastern block countries are effectively out competing European haulage companies, with the effects most visible in the countries with the highest salaries. For instance, in Sweden, most small family owned transport companies have either filed for bankruptcy or been bought by larger companies, much due to the increasing price dumping caused by Eastern European companies. And increasingly the Swedish haulage companies are hiring Eastern European drivers as contractors, as this is cheaper than hiring Swedish drivers. This, and other similar cases for instance cheap builders, cheap ship yard workers, steel workers and so on, means that many Eastern European countries may be poorer than Western European countries, but the work force have a lot of work opportunities, especially the Eastern Europeans that are in the European Union. Work opportunities that are disappearing in Western Europe.

* That is, about 40h a week give or take according to work schedule in accordance to what the law says about continuous work hours and obligated rest between shifts. For instance it is possible that a truck driver can be scheduled to work 56 hours a week, the regulations are very strict in Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_driver#European_Union)

2 comments

> Another more cynic explanation would be that you are trying to spread some poor-me-I'm-from-an-ex-communist-country-I'm-so-poor propaganda, hopefully that isn't so.

I hope I'm not :) Anyway, maybe I was wrong in my multiplication by a certain factor, but you have to keep in mind that my brother (and his co-workers) only make these kind of trips every 2 weeks or so, so assuming he makes an average of 2 and half such trips per month it's around ~800 euro per month. Which is actually a pretty good salary around these parts, only that most likely most of this money is paid in some manner as to avoid taxes (there was a post from some Hungarian guy a couple of weeks ago explaining why that's the only viable solution for a small to medium company around these parts of Europe).

And regarding the "disappearance" of job opportunities for Western workers... well, something has got to give, you cannot have a free market for goods without a free market for labor. Meaning you cannot have Ikea stores in those "poor" East-European countries with no import charges attached to its merchandise without giving said East-European workers the chance to improve their lives in Ikea's host country' or Nokia's, or BMW's. Otherwise it's just old, plain economic colonialism, and that's bad.

I think €800 for 8 days of work is ok good money for truck driving work and not so far from what truck drivers make for instance in Sweden. And I agree with all of your other points.
assuming an average work week of 5 days for both your brother and the average German truck driver, the German truck driver would have made €421,80*

How did you come to that number? Is it from extrapolation on the minimum wage? Because truck drivers don't get the minimum wage, they are compensated very well. This €420 would more likely be something like €1000 for a 5 week trip, or more.

Oh, an important distinction though is if the truck driver just drives the truck in some city (low normal wage), or if he's making cross-country and cross-europe deliveries (much much higher).

I used this link http://www.gehalt-tipps.de/Gehaltsvergleich/Gehalt/Lkw-Fahre... provided by thomasz. Then I took the average from all those reported wages which was €2,109.36/month, divided it by 20 (as this is the average work week for most employees even in the trucking business, and actually well regulated) and multiplied it by 4 as paganel said his brother had worked for 4 days ("he just came back from a 4-day") and earned €300. If the information provided by thomasz is correct or not, well I can't really judge it without more information, but to say that a German truck driver makes 5 times €300 in 4 days is just ridiculous any way you cut it. As a side note, the average truck driver in Sweden makes SEK23,000 that is about €2,600.

http://www.lonestatistik.se/loner.asp/yrke/Lastbilschauffor-...

I agree that paganel's comparison seems a bit exaggerated but note that there are non-wage labor costs here in Germany. Wikipedia reports 22 percent. A common rule of thumb is 30 percent, IIRC.

This means the total wage of the truck driver here would be about €511.30 for 4 days of work.

Most workers don't care about what the employer actually pays, most workers just take into account what is stated on their pay check. Most Swedes, when talking about wage, mention the statement before taxes, so for instance €2000 would equal something like €1400 after taxes. I think this is true for the german numbers as well, they are before taxation, but paganel mentioned that the €300 his brother made for 4 days of work probably wouldn't be taxed, so that is €300 in his pocket, as opposed to the German who would have to pay tax on his €420.

My personal opinion is that talking about wages and comparing them between countries is very difficult, many factors play into the equation; cost of living, food, energy, health care, taxes and so on are big components of this. My point was though, and still is, that claiming that a German truck driver makes €7500 in a 20 day period (which is five times what paganel's brother would have made if he had worked 20 days) is just ridiculous. I claimed earlier that I would quit my, in comparison to €7500, low paying IT job if that was the case, and I think I actually would.