Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by rhaway84773 1202 days ago
I don’t get this line of argument.

Sales force believed their business will do better with Matthew Mcconaughey as opposed to those 8k employees. They may be wrong, but it’s for them to figure out if they’re wrong.

I understand the argument that workers should not be disposable, and workers shouldn’t be fired at will, even with at-will contracts, and companies have responsibilities towards their workers. In fact, that argument is popular enough that most countries, including the U.S. until recently, gave workers and their unions privileges that wouldn’t be afforded in a different scenario. And if you want to argue that workers rights have been diluted far too much in with you.

My problem is instead of making this straightforward argument, when you’re trying to compare the firing of workers to spending on a completely different situation. There’s no possible way for an outsider to know what the value of having McConaughey sit around is, what the contractual details are, what the cost, both monetary and otherwise of splitting from him, etc is.

My response to this headline isn’t to be more sympathetic to the workers. It’s to wonder what the hell McConaughey getting contractually paid has anything to do with the poor treatment of workers by Salesforce.

1 comments

> They may be wrong, but it’s for them to figure out if they’re wrong.

You clearly buy into the idea that because salesforce has, within our current economic system, managed to gather to itself substantial economic resources, then it should be the entity that gets to decide how to deploy those resources.

If Salesforce is wrong (and there's a very, very good chance that they are), they have mis-allocated resources, but will face little if any penalty for it other than some opportunity costs that are of their own making.

> There’s no possible way for an outsider to know what the value of having McConaughey sit around is, what the contractual details are, what the cost, both monetary and otherwise of splitting from him, etc is.

The actual question is whether there is actually any way for an insider to know this either, and what penalties would be face if they make a mistake.

I'm fine with companies making a profit (I think). But I want them taxed in a way that removes their control over the bulk of these resource allocation decisions. Salesforce might (or might not) be very good at what they do, but they, like every other corporation (and essentially all individuals) have no demonstrated competence at resource allocation that benefits all of us. US$10M might not seem like a lot if it is roughly your annual salary, but there are huge numbers of people and communities that would be substantially aided via US$10M.

Even $1M would be a genuinely life-changing amount of money for me and my family. That's well over a decade's worth of my salary. Working where I work now, I wouldn't be able to make an aggregate of $10M over my lifetime even if I lived to be over 100.
Just making sure: You've propose that the state should control the bulk of resource allocation decisions?
Depends on what you mean by "the state".

I respect the power of loosely regulated markets, and a highly entrepeneurial culture.

I also have respect for the power of participatory democracy to make better decisions than profit-incentivized corporations.

Do I think that the current US congress can do a better job than Salesforce in deciding how to spend US10M? Actually, probably yes. Can the current US congress do a better job than the entirety of all US for-profit corporations? Probably not.

Does that mean that there are no forms of non-corporate resource allocation decision making that couldn't do a better job. I believe that it does not, and that we should, as a society, seek out those other forms.

The idea that we should "seek out those other forms" is a huge retreat from the statement:

> I'm fine with companies making a profit (I think). But I want them taxed in a way that removes their control over the bulk of these resource allocation decisions.

Do you think we should increase corporate taxes to "the bulk of" a company's resources (implying, at a minimum, more than half)?

Or are you just frustrated by this instance of what seems like obvious waste, but on further consideration still admit that leaving the bulk of resource allocation decisions to the market is the best idea we collectively have?

I think that we should tax away the majority of corporate profit (modulo, of course, legally sanctioned re-investment).

And no, I do not think that leaving the bulk of resource allocation decisions to the market is the best idea we collectively have. The market works fine for some resource allocation, but it has very disturbing failures with quite a number of things that are central to a happy, free life. I do believe that market pricing is a valuable strategy in running a contemporary economy, but the level of trust and responsibility we place in it has, IMO, gotten completely out of control.

Why not penalize the people who gave these resources to salesforce to misallocate?
Depends on who they were. VC is a different story than customers. Don't know Salesforce's situation well enough to understand which applies here.