[nicoburns]

It's ultimately violence in a capitalist society too (what do you think the police are for?). It's certainly possible to achieve a fairer distribution of wealth than capitalist societies produce.

And before the inevitable replies: no, I'm not advocating for communism. I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies.

[nickpeterson]

Sure, all things can be improved, and I know we don’t live in anywhere near a utopia (education, retirement ,healthcare, tort reform, all needed), but I get uncomfortable with the tone that we’re consciously choosing a bad system when the reality is that peacefully refactoring power structures and society is just hard.

[rootusrootus]

> I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies.

I'm struggling to think of a good example of a current non-capitalist market economy. Do you have one in mind? Or are you advocating for something not yet successfully created?

[nicoburns]

As the sibling suggests, somewhere like Sweden is probably closest. But yes, I'm advocating for something not yet successfully created (or even attempted as far as I'm aware).

[rootusrootus]

That is interesting, thanks for sharing your viewpoint. In that case, I agree with you, at least insofar as I very much want to see more social democracy in the US than we currently have. But I think it would require the citizens to have a great deal more trust in gov't than we currently have, so not anytime soon.

[lazyasciiart]

Some people argue that social democracy (eg Sweden), as a real welfare state, is distinct from capitalism.