[yakireev]

Hello there, nice to meet you. Life without Whatsapp is not easy in the Netherlands, but is possible. The "super bubble" exists though, and it sucks. Most problems come from the "literally everyone has whatshapp" crowd like you, by the way, the people who deny the existence of the bubble.

Could you please stop making my life harder? No, not "literally everyone" has Whatsapp: I don't. Agreeing to T&C of some foreign corporation should not be a precondition to participating in the society, don't you think?

[noirscape]

Yeah can confirm that I'm another one in the boat of "would drop WA since Facebook owns it", but it's just borderline unviable to do so if I don't want to make my life much more difficult/put extra stress on all my IRL social connections.

It's hard to understand it if you don't live in NL just how extremely omnipresent WhatsApp is. People use it for everything, from casual family chatter to highly serious conversations to quite literally business-related conversations. Not having WA will absolutely result in things like missing crucial information because "we send it in the WhatsApp group" and that of course in turn will be used as a mark against you when you're say, seeking a job.

This occurred before Facebook bought it and their recent T&S change that allows them to use WA usage to improve their algorithms basically was a case of "enjoy being forced to share your data with no recourse". There was tons of social pushback about it but nobody could do anything about it because the app is so entrenched.

I am thoroughly looking forward to the DMA and its impact on WhatsApp.

[seszett]

I think you're misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) the matter.

WhatsApp can be installed on any device. iMessage requires specific hardware, i.e. an Apple iPhone.

It is always possible not to use either and just communicate by SMS (which I prefer myself, but as I understand it WhatsApp came to be used here in Belgium because phone plans are expensive and SMS are still limited/paid on most plans) but that's a different matter.

[yakireev]

> I think you're misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) the matter.

The matter here is that the commenter I was responding to says I don't exist. My experience is that folks with that attitude also treat me as if I don't exist. I object to both of these things.

Selling your first-born rights for a lentil soup, or agreeing to adversarial T&C of a foreign corporation should not be a precondition for participating in a society.

[teekert]

You have my Respect (although the person you're responding to probably doesn't mean it like you take it). I probably could only do it while feeling good about it by self-hosting some Matrix bridge. Actually, I'd still feel bad because I'd support the system.

Well, as a parent it really is difficult, you constantly have to explain yourself and arrange alternatives. Some context: Texting (SMSing we call it) is f-ing expensive here, ridiculous (25 ct/message? Unless you buy a plan, but why should you? There is Whatsapp... Nobody is going to use SMS with you, any parent will probably think: "Are you making me send an SMS [to come pick up your kid], really?").

[college_physics]

Take heart, times are a-changing, even in sophisticated and freedom loving Netherlands. Its been a long oppresive period where the lemming mob would simply bully you: "I don't recognize your concerns, I don't care, I can't be bothered". But nowadays you definitely see some inroads of e.g., Signal.

But its a steep upward slope to climb. Lots of data-siphoning apps are painted on buses or splash on city ad "walls" but whatsapp is actually a permanent fixture of the urban landscape in so-called "neighbourhood watch signs". A creepy dystopic image if there was one.

[marcosdumay]

Well, the reliance on Whatsapp is a serious accessibility issue that governments should be working on.

At the same time, the OP is not in a "bubble". You can't call something a bubble if almost everybody is inside it.

[sph]

Sorry, but that's your choice.

The green bubble effect is because some people do not want or cannot afford an Apple phone. There's a huge difference.

If Whatsapp came with a €400 base price and roughly 50% of people using something else, I'd understand.