China bans all Western social media tech in the widest way possible for more than a decade and the minute a Western govt enacts a ban on govt devices, folks say this is unfair.
I think a big part of the objection over banning TikTok is that we, in the US, feel we should be able to make our own choices when it comes to social media (and most everything). Banning an app is antithetical to freedom.
Never said it was -- if you follow the thread you'll see I was replying to someone pointing out that China has banned US social networks. The implication being that true US banning TikTok would only be fair, or something like that.
> We already ban a ton of stuff.
We do... and those bans do limit freedom, by definition. We've accepted that in a lot of cases -- few are arguing that child porn should be anything but banned, for example -- but I doubt we'd accept a government ban or restriction on, say, League of Legends simply because kids spend too much time on it (China places restrictions on time of day and duration).
> Never said it was -- if you follow the thread you'll see I was replying to someone pointing out that China has banned US social networks. The implication being that true US banning TikTok would only be fair, or something like that.
You replied to me. I simply said this is not unfair.
> ban or restriction on, say, League of Legends simply
Stepping away from hypotheticals: A lot of countries have restrictions on what you and you can't do with govt resources. E.g., there are restrictions on what carriers you can use if you fly with govt. funding. Other countries have similar rules. There is nothing wrong or unfair or "freedom limiting" with the US govt banning a likely foreign govt. controlled app from govt. devices.
Companies like Google and Facebook CHOOSE to not operate in China because they don't want to follow the the laws that Chinese companies are following. They're not banned, they're not allowed to operate unless they comply with local laws. Just like they wouldn't be allowed to operate in Europe if they didn't show a Cookie pop-up. It's not like they're not allowed to operate in China because they're American apps.
The US should make the data collection itself illegal for everyone and be done with it. They're currently walking this weird path where the exact same data collection is fine if it's Americans doing. It's not one set of rules for everyone.
> The US should make the data collection itself illegal for everyone and be done with it. They're currently walking this weird path where the exact same data collection is fine if it's Americans doing. It's not one set of rules for everyone.
Data collection is NOT the issue.
Foreign govt interference is the issue. If tomorrow Google were controlled by a hostile foreign govt., they would face the same bans.
But your link (the NYT times) says exactly what I said. They don't comply with local laws, which is why they're not accessible there. Not sure what else to tell you. Even Facebook's official comment is, which can be found if you follow the links you've posted:
“We need to figure out a solution that is in line with our principles and what we want to do, and in line with the laws there, or else it’s not going to happen. Right now, there isn’t an intersection.”
> Foreign govt interference is the issue. If tomorrow Google were controlled by a hostile foreign govt., they would face the same bans.
So it _is_ simply because it's foreign. How long do you think Google would survive in the US if it didn't comply with US requests? It does comply with requests and three letter agencies have access to data (as per Edward Snowden).
If your stance is that it's fine when we do it but not when others do it then that's just what it is.
> But your link (the NYT times) says exactly what I said.
No, it doesn’t. Read again. Was a fair trial held? No. End of story.
CCP does not rule according to laws. The only laws are CCP’s words and now Do’s words.
And you have a false equivalence here. TikTok has CCP board members and is not banned for US citizens.
> So it _is_ simply because it's foreign. How long do you think Google would survive in the US if it didn't comply with US requests? It does comply with requests and three letter agencies have access to data (as per Edward Snowden).
For a while. There would be court cases. Companies refuse US govt requests all the time and fight it in a court of law. A Snowden equivalent in China would be killed and not just a fugitive.
The CCP doesn't allow Facebook on PLA devices either. Because they're not idiots. All superpowers have significant domestic legal power to collect information regarding national security risks (read: competing militaries/governments).
This is just what's publically announced, because companies have no international recourse against China. They sure as hell won't release info about obtaining profiles of various US officials. The CCP can tell Chinese corps to do whatever it wants them to do. It's not like the US. And to think they haven't leveraged the most effective psy-op and surveillance tool in the world is, honestly, quite naive.
China bans all Western social media tech in the widest way possible for more than a decade and the minute a Western govt enacts a ban on govt devices, folks say this is unfair.