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by thomastjeffery 1210 days ago
I wish we had something like this in the US. We sorely need it.

Today, in the US and much of the western world as a whole, we are missing something I have seen described as "the third place". This is defined as any social setting that isn't the "first place" (home), or the "second place" (work).

Wikipedia introduces the "third place" with examples: "churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, stoops and parks". I disagree with most, if not all of these as true examples of the third place.

Churches have explicit missions; whether they be charity, evangelism, or even to vaguely unite a community: there is always a goal in mind, and an expectation to work toward that goal. So despite their extracurricular position, these are the second place: work. I would include clubs and gyms for the same reason.

Cafes and bars are businesses. Even if you can casually visit them, you are expected to buy something. The experience of cafes and bars may be very close to a third place, but they are effectively taxed: without buying drinks, the business fails. That introduces a deliberate purpose to the space that, in practice, recreates the same social dynamics present in churches, clubs, and gyms.

Libraries allow you to choose your goals, but you are expected to do so quietly and alone. Engaging those around you in casual conversation is rude, and even against the rules! Libraries also provide space for extracurricular groups, like clubs, but that interaction is explicit: it doesn't start organically. So we end up again with the same "second place" social dynamic!

So what about public parks? Surely a public park can fill the void: after all, that's explicitly what they are there for! And yet, in my experience, this doesn't happen. People use parks for their utility: to exercise, walk their dogs, or play with friends. They are effectively an extension of the "first place": home.

I can't think of a single physical location in the Untied States where the average person can freely visit, and expect to be talked to. Such an interaction is so unfamiliar, it is implicitly discouraged: an unspoken rule. Sure, there are those who are willing to break that rule, but when I see it play out, I see the average person react with discomfort and annoyance. After all, they were just minding their own business: such is the American dream.

The third place is dead, not only in the physical (by not existing as a place), but also in the ethereal (by not existing in our social expectations). Even if we want it, we are missing the narrative: the story: the blueprint: detailing how and where it could exist in our lives. That alone is the very reason we so desperately need it.

2 comments

I recommend a visit to Cuba if you can. Parks are used extensively as a third place there. So I think that this is cultural as much as it is anything to do with parks. Cuba and the US have a lot of differences, of course (maybe you could attribute this to the comparatively much poorer state of housing) but nothing is stopping us from doing this per se.

You may also be surprised how central of a third place are some cafes in southern Europe: in rural Spanish, Greek, Italian villages they’ll often have a contingent of pensioners regulars chatting throughout the day. Again, this could just as well happen in the US - even if you argue car culture or whatever, it could happen in NYC or SF, but doesn’t really.

I think actually, we are culturally averse to third places now. There used to be more in the US (saloons were huge before prohibition). I question the extent to which we “need” it given that we’ve gradually shifted towards not having them. Maybe it’s because those needs are met elsewhere. You could argue things like the workplace (as reimagined by tech companies and startups) or Internet are a third place for example

From my European viewpoint US seems to have a thriving civil society.

Sweden used to have that. Workers movement, free churches and the temperance movement basically built the Swedish democracy. A large percent of the population were contributing members in them. They are almost extinct now.

The welfare state took their place. If something is not commercially viable in Sweden, it has to be funded by tax payers. And then you get all the issues of what should be funded and what shouldn't.

We no longer have strong, self-supporting associations. And we don't have the philanthropic tradition where rich people fund things.

I would trade you in a heartbeat.