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by ModernMech 1208 days ago
> If Jews wanted preferential treatment because of the Holocaust I'd object to that too.

This is as strawman brought in from Scott Adams' rant. By and large black people are not asking for preferential treatment, and no one here is discussing that.

> If you want to point to concrete things that prevent black people reaching equality then we can discuss it

Absolutely. For example, my grandfather had a great head start at life. He came to America and immediately got a job. He owned land not long thereafter, which was left to my father. That land will be left to me. The entire time he lived in America he had the right to vote, and he shaped the country by electing representatives to lobby for his interests at the local, state, and federal level. Those representatives enacted laws that benefitted my family.

By contrast, a black man born into slavery would not be allowed to fully integrate into American society even when freed. He wouldn't have owned much of anything to leave to his children, and his grandchildren, my peers. His entire family tree wouldn't have been allowed to vote, or hold office, or own property.

If you want to claim that slavery has no impact today, you have to also believe it is so far in the past that the negative effects have been sufficiently attenuated. But really, we're actually talking about 1-2 generations. People have living memory of actual American slaves. You also have to believe political representation and generational wealth are meaningless. Seeing how hard people fight for political representation and to keep generational wealth, I think this is a deeply flawed position.

How do we fix this using the framework of equality?

> it's a statement of what happened in the past.

To go a step further, are you aware slavery isn't actually abolished in America? The 13th Amendment has a carveout that slavery may be a punishment for criminal activity. Now take a look at the drug war, who they targeted with that, who is currently incarcerated and doing unpaid labor, and tell me slavery is a thing of the past in America. Do you think it's a problem that black people are represented in America's prison population at 3x the rate they are represented in society at large? Don't you think the problem is further compounded by the fact that America has the largest prison population in the world?

1 comments

>This is as strawman brought in from Scott Adams' rant

I haven't read his rant. If anyone was strawmaning, you went to Hitler, I was just trying to modify the example to better fit.

>He owned land not long thereafter, which was left to my father. That land will be left to me

Good for you. Doesn't apply to me though, so it's obviously not a black v white issue. Further I would support a ~100% inheritance tax rate, solves the issue, means that every generation has a clean slate, making their own way in life. Plus id rather pay my taxes after I'm dead. How does that suit?

> had the right to vote, and he shaped the country by electing representatives to lobby for his interests

And those laws can be changed. Which do you suggest?

>To go a step further...

Yes that's an issue. But is it an issue of poverty? A problem of racist police and courts? What? I disagree that slavery actually exists. I don't think prisons should exist as money making concerns though.

The thread of black -> poor -> drugs -> prison I'm not convinced needs to include black in there. And a healthy amount of personal responsibility for the people involved is also required. It can't all just be blamed on others.

And none of this requires a discussion of slavery. Fix the problem as it is now.

>The thread of black -> poor -> drugs -> prison I'm not convinced needs to include black in there.

Wow, incredibly magnanimous of you.

?

well assuming poverty is the issue. solve the poverty. for all people. i dont see why it makes sense to focus on a just so happens to be related group.

or is black poverty acceptable because it was forced on them by the white man? whereas all poor white people deserve it?

I'm just pointing out that it's incredibly magnanimous for you to ponder the thought that maybe black people don't have to be poor. Like I said, incredibly magnanimous.
Where did I say they have to be poor, or should be poor?

If you read the thread, I'm the one who isn't implicitly conflating the 2, which I suspect is at least part of the disconnect.

This is why I don't get arguments mentioning slavery etc. Because poverty and blackness are separate. You don't need a racial component to go about fixing that. So the snark is wrong.

>Where did I say they have to be poor, or should be poor?

I didn't say or suggest you said that.