[roundandround]

> Russia keeps killing people and handing over the Ukraine to them is no option.

And who suggested that? The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent by acting with integrity and admitting defeat and willingness to face externally determined consequences or if something else will happen.

[clouddrover]

> The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent

No need to ask that question. Putin has made Russia weaker, poorer, and a pariah with fewer friends:

https://fortune.com/2023/02/20/russia-economy-self-immolated...

Russia has become a lesser state run by a sad little man. If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine.

[roundandround]

> Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine, Russia extradites those Russians who have committed war crimes, and Russia pays reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine.

> If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine

The second option doesn't seem to require Russia to do the first. Nor does it really require Russia to remove Putin to get peace. Putin withdrawing is no doubt more realistic if China helps put lipstick on the pig with an obfuscated treaty on future alliances that can be called a victory.

[lispm]

Other than having nukes, Russia is no superpower. Nukes are useless in this war.