[4gotunameagain]

I like the wishful thinking, even if I think it is impossible that china believes statements such as:

  2. Abandoning the Cold War mentality. The security of a country should not be pursued at the expense of others. The security of a region should not be achieved by strengthening or expanding military blocs. The legitimate security interests and concerns of all countries must be taken seriously and addressed properly. There is no simple solution to a complex issue. All parties should, following the vision of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security and bearing in mind the long-term peace and stability of the world, help forge a balanced, effective and sustainable European security architecture. All parties should oppose the pursuit of one's own security at the cost of others' security, prevent bloc confrontation, and work together for peace and stability on the Eurasian Continent.  

, but this text contains zero solutions or suggestions in order to reach one.

[s1artibartfast]

This is indeed the most interesting part.

>The security of a country should not be pursued at the expense of others. The security of a region should not be achieved by strengthening or expanding military blocs.

The most clear interpretation of this section is a condemnation of NATO expansion into Ukraine. NATO is the "military bloc" described here.

A military bloc is a military alliance of states. Russia invading Ukraine isn't a "strengthening or expansion" of the Russian military bloc.

NATO alliance Ukraine clearly advances the security of the EU and Ukraine itself.

[thevagrant]

That doesnt make sense. Ukraine isn't part of NATO. Also NATO is a defensive alliance.

It seems some countries don't want their neighbors to defend themselves?

[s1artibartfast]

NATO declared that Ukraine could be part of the alliance 6 months before the invasion and Russia immediately started their troop build up.

You could argue that NATO is a defensive Alliance but much of the world does not view it that way. The US uses NATO bases for every war it conducts and houses nuclear and non-nuclear missiles and in NATO countries.

Independent of whether you think NATO is a defensive Alliance, this statement condemns the expansion of alliances even for the purpose of increasing security of the Allied countries. It states it quite plainly that it opposes defensive alliances too

[yogthos]

It's utterly dishonest to argue that NATO is a defensive alliance in the face of the fact that NATO has been regularly invading countries for many decades. Yugoslavia, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria are just a few examples.

[thevagrant]

I couldn't find reference to NATO involvement in Syria.

Perhaps you mistake countries who are part of NATO to being NATO itself?

"just a few examples".. I expect there are lots more examples you can give? Especially if your point is that NATO is not a defensive alliance and is used to invade and gain territory.

[yogthos]

Even if you discount Syria, the rest of the examples are NATO projects. If NATO was a defensive alliance as you claimed then it would not be constantly invading countries. NATO literally murdered and displaced millions of people in wars of aggression. It's absolutely surreal that somebody could possibly respond with I want to see more atrocities before I agree this is an aggressive alliance.

NATO massacred over 6 million in war on terror alone https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/15/up-to-six-million-people-...

Meanwhile, US is obviously the biggest NATO member and what it does is clearly condoned by the rest of NATO members whether they are involved directly or not.

[0xDEF]

The Russian leadership's pre-war speeches and essays stated that Ukraine is not a legitimate country and that Ukraine was unfairly carved out of Russian. This is based on a widespread Russian belief that the Ukrainian identity was created by Poland and the Austro-Hungarian Empire to divide Russia.

China and American Conservatives are an demanding immediate halt of Western support for Ukraine followed by "peace talks". What exactly is there to talk about when Russia doesn't even recognize Ukraine's right to exist?