[cld8483]

> Kind of a tangent, but is it fair to define ppl up in arms about this as “anti-woke”? Im basing this on the fact that anti-woke usually is considered right-wing/libertarian etc

You're right that one of these is unfair, but it is the latter not the former. "Woke" is the progressive fringe, not the mainstream. Opposition to woke is a set that includes both the moderate mainstream and the right fringe. Liberal enlightenment values, which represent the moderate majority today, are distinctly "anti-woke".

[petsfed]

I wonder if part of the problem is a confusion of meaning for "woke", coupled with a tendency to misuse moderate criticism as full-throated support for the extreme opposition.

The classic liberal stance is "don't be shitty to people", and, in turn, "call out people for being shitty". But "shitty" is pretty subjective, and it runs the gamut from "going out of your way to be specifically, personally aggressive and hurtful" to "using a word that in a different context might potentially be understood as critical to someone". It seems like the most vocally anti-woke people clutch their pearls in equal dismay for any attempt at avoiding either case.

I think there is a performative element to a lot of "woke" efforts, but I have to be very careful about saying that, lest I inadvertently carry water for someone who wants to use my words to justify racial slurs or deliberate mis-gendering or any number of other things that I think are shitty. It should not be "this self-described liberal said that 'woke' is performative, therefore there's no real objection to me calling black people [racial slur]".

[jonathanlb]

> Liberal enlightenment values [...] are distinctly "anti-woke".

How so? Enlightenment values include the commitment to universal human dignity and the rejection of prejudice and discrimination. This is consistent with the goals of social justice movements.

[cld8483]

There is nothing liberal about censoring books. Stripping the word "fat" out of children's books is progressive, but certainly not liberal, and certainly not mainstream.

[PeterisP]

Enlightenment values place rejection of prejudice and discrimination far lower than the ability to express things freely even if these things contain prejudice and discrimination - e.g. "The right to free speech is more important than the content of the speech." by Voltaire.